Why the "prophet" Muhammad never learned the alphabet? Even fools know it ...

Not all (or many) prophets were sent by God. Simple rule on prophets is whether their prophecies came true or not OR if they spoke things that showed God as unchanging or changes the god all together. A prophet should not be hell-bent on killing people.

There are so many religions with prophets and angels that spoke things that were opposing to God yet they created religions and have followers who believe they were prophets of God.

 

Got your point.

Then, if Islam is the best, why muslims are not the best people on earth? Is Islam really helping people to live better or stops them from moving forward? If your knowledge does not help you to live better how much is it worth?

 

True. But Islam really helps people to live better, it is muslims who are stopping from moving forward. at least most of the muslims.

 

Islam came about 1,400 years ago, ......

That is quite a bit of a time .... and it still has not proved to be the best belief system for its followers. That is the Truth.

Who's fault is it for example that muslims didn't become the most honest and trustworthy people on earth, they had plenty of time to transfer those princeples from generation to generation?
For example muslims are fanatical about their women and stealing, but are not fanatical about speaking the truth and being fair in their relations with others. Why is that?

I'll repeat it again: Why muslims are not fanatical about Truth and Honesty (as they are about women)?

 

because Prophet of Muhammad doestn't have to, there is a god who take care of him, that why first letter that came from god is about "Write".... and there's an angel who teach him...

 

Once again!

whatever you think or say does does not automatically becomes universal 'truth'

 

It is a good point, just misdirected new. See it makes even more sense now.

 

Don't know really where to put this, since it's been discussed on a number of threads, but I think it's appropos, and worthy of consideration, anyway. This was sent to me from Gauhar, from the website, Understanding Islam.

I had known that the hadith discussing Mohammed's marriage to Aisha came from Bukhari. I have also come to know, from talking with some Muslims (incl. Gauhar), that this is but one story, and others mentioned Aisha was considerably older.

Here is one such perspective, and I post it as food for thought - I can appreciate work that investigates things, over accepting on blind obeisance. Of particular interest to me is the work on timelines - it shows, at least to me, a logic that I can respect to the degree I want to evaluate it in good faith.

Which raises the real concern I have, which is that irrespective of wherever the truth lies respecting Muhammad's behavior, that folks - as I've seen among some, here - would literally toss it all out the door of their own thoughts, with a tautology: "Muhammad was perfect, therefore, anything he did....is perfection." What that leads to is some of what we've seen here - the wild attempts to justify child marriage ("a 9-year old is, in fact, an adult") simply because they believe it was done by the Founder of their faith. I find that astoundingly dangerous, actually.

At any rate, I did want to thank Gauhar for giving me this material, and I do want to think on it. Here it is:

Now, this raises another issue. Much the same with all religious texts, the text is either infallible and completely transparent - in other words, not only is the text "perfect," but its words and guidance are such that it isn't simply vagaries, to be interpreted in the myriad ways people can interpret them; or, the text isn't "perfect, complete, and immutable," and is, in fact, to be understood both by reference to historical context, and with an understanding that a given faithful's notion, derived from the text, is simply an interpretation.

In the case of the Bukhari hadith, it is either part of what is considered "perfect, and complete," or it is not. If it is infallible, then obviously we have an issue with the hadith, as it does state Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated, had sex with her, when she was 9.

If the hadith is flawed - contravened by reference to other texts - then is it not the same as with many other religious texts; namely, that it is impossible the text is not interpreted by human beings, each with their own proclivities, and therefore the same text has different meanings to different people? Further, once you admit one flaw, by definition, the text is no longer infallible - in fact, the text is simply flawed?

Food for thought, across many minds, I'd offer. I know I find this historical discussion of the hadith interesting.

 

I've found some verses in Bukhari that may be what you are referring to...

Sahih Bukhari,
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).


Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'


I think many muslims do consider Bukhari a reliable source. You may be interested in this, Faith Freedom found the article you're referring to and disputed it.

 

Every time NPT, Rebecca, or Browntwn, run out of logic after being faced with convincing truth that leaves no doubt, and when they no longer able to discuss that topic without appearing like idiots, they suddenly find themselves talking about the prophet pbuh marriage to Aisha, even if the thread was of a different topic,

they also try to appear as caring about Muslim kids, when they actually have seen at least 100,000 Iraqi babies die because of the siege, and never raised a finger, or said a word,

when they have seen the remains of Gazzan children bodies spread on walls and probably smiled, but never said a word, or raise a finger,

they also have heard about killing Palestinians kids for their organs, but never commented,

despite this topic been discussed so many times, specifically with these three mentioned above, I go and come back to find them still asking the same questions which been answered many times, what happened to the discussion which you ran away from NPT, do you have enough morals and courage to stay in a debate till the end?

I dare you, you and the others, to put all your questions, or whatever you do not understand, about anything, Mohammad pbuh marriage to Aisha, wife beating, laws of war in Islam, whatever, anything you want, bring whatever text you find, from any source, BUT do not run away like a coward in the middle of the discussion as usual, stay in the topic you started till the end, so you do not later after a week keep changing each thread's topic to the prophet pbuh marriage to Aisha.

so, go on you three put your questions or whatever is troubling your mind if there was any, or your kind emotions and concerns about Muslim kids I will be more than happy to answer all again, starting from the very beginning.

 

Well, imad, PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Show everyone where I have ever changed the topic to Mohammad having sex with a child?

I'll wait for the link imad.



p.s. You seem to think I care about Islam or Mohammad. I don't. As for your unsatisfactory answers about the problems with Islam. It is not me you need to convince - it is your own conscience. Deep down you know that beating your wife, no matter the excuse or justifications or mitigating facts claimed, is just wrong. It is so simple, that I know in your heart of hearts you know it too. It is okay. I know you feel compelled to defend Islam - that is part of the problem the rest of us see - the blind obedience and willingness to defend the indefensible.

 

Of course not, you do not care about Islam or Mohammad, or Muslims except to portray them in a bad image, as I said, seeing Muslims kids spread on walls is most likely a joy for you, if you care about kids in general, you would have spoken about ALL kids, and all kinds of injustice and crimes that happen to them, not to speak about them when you feel there are some injustice happened to them by some other Muslims, and keep silent when you see them being killed by Israelis or Americans, you do not speak about the bad some Muslims did to force their kids to marry, and ignore the so many cases in which so many kids been forced to have sex with adults (priests in some cases) in USA, including their relatives, which is much bigger and serious problem than all the cases where some Muslims force their kids to marry,

got the idea? I hope so.

the times you changed topics to became "Muslims and Islam bashing" are so many, maybe you did not change it yourself to specifically speak about Mohammad marriage to Aisha, but for sure you opened the way, by changing the topic to later become about this or something similar, despite it has been answered so many times, here is a reminder, of so many,

wife beating is wrong, like I have said so before, have you been following threads you participate in? are you trying to put words in my mouth that I said "beating wife is right"? and by the way, this is not my personal view only, it is also Islam's view, feel free to comment if you feel else.

 

Hmm, don't see a link.

 

there are two, or are you saying you did not change the topic there to become Islam and Muslim bashing?..

Hmm, but wait ..

how many are these: | | | ?

 

When have I ever changed the subject to "the prophet pbuh marriage to Aisha" as you claim?

Words have meanings. You don't get to claim I said one thing and then when asked for proof show a bunch of posts that have nothing to do with your claim about me. This is typical of your debating style on this forum. It is clear you have nothing to support you accusation - not that it will stop you from making them.

p.s. If you read the comment to ThraXed it is a comment about him and specifically not on Muslims or Islam. I think his behavior was a poor reflection on Islam, much as I think yours is. I don't really care what I say to him. If you read his posts to me, mine are nothing but kindness in comparison.

p.s.s. Yes, imad, I did not see the links. You know why? Because you posted them next to your name! Silly me, I was looking for a link or my own name.

It is sad that you see this is somehow an attack on Islam. I thought Islam does not support child marriage. Why can't something like that be something we are both against. I don't get why you are not siding with the poor 8-year old Yemeni girl.

I started the thread and watched it progress. So, what did I do wrong with posting the thread or my comment here:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=7498157&postcount=53

Sorry, I have a thing for calling people out on their bullshit and calling societies and courts that allow old men to rape girls. This should be something we can all be on the same side. Why you chose to do anything else is beyond my comprehension.

 

It seems that you are playing dumb now?

I will give you another link, but before,

The point, you always escape the topic whenever you feel you started to appear like an idiot, to another topic that is attractive to Islam haters, racists, and similar characters, sometimes you even start such topics, to keep the hate boiling, then they end discussing Mohammad marriage to Aisha, despite they do not know anything about it, except whatever they read on their favorite hateful sites, and despite you know whatever they will hear or know, they won't listen because such types of people are closed from inside, and are controlled and moved by their hate only rather than their minds,

the two links above are an example where you tried to do so, and I put a stop to you, there are many others where you succeeded in this, here is a thread you started:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=799292

in which you were pasting as usual a piece of news, that talks about a 8 years Yemeni girl whom been forced to marry, later your thread became about Mohammad marriage to Aisha, and your later posts were not about the Yemeni girl, but the prophet pbuh marriage to Aisha, despite this topic been discussed many times, and in boring details.

did you change the topic there to became about Mohammad marriage to Aisha? of course you did, even if indirectly.

did you do this in other threads? of course you did.

will you admit it? of course NOT.

we may disagree here, but I m sure mods can read both and notice, and I hope they will interfere to keep threads related to their topics and do not become after an invitation from browntwn - an open party for bigots, Islam haters, racists to practice their joys.

anybody who is truly interested in discussing would know the basic requirements for discussing, and do not keep repeating the same as a parrot, after they get answers, if the answers were not convincing, they could say so, but no, they leave the discussion then, to come back later and open it again, discuss it as you want, but do not run away, stay till the end, better than opening so many threads about the same, and change the topics of some unrelated threads to become about other topics which you failed to discuss to the end elsewhere, go back, and continue were you stopped.

now I have a question, you may consider it unrelated, but regardless, in the two examples above, didn't you try to change the topic (despite it was not related to Islam and Muslims) to become Islam and Muslim bashing?

 

you do have some good sense of humor, at one side you despise Islam from the core of your heart and at the same time you want to tell us that how we should be reflecting Islam

or in other words you want Islam to be run the way brwntwn wishes ..nice , nice ...I also nominate Hasan Nasrulalh for PMship of isreal


imad, now matter how many times you explain to them , they will not understand, because they don't want to understand, they hearts also closed by hatred, to understand is not their motive.

they don't care about women, they don't care about children
Their motive is to ridicule Islam and Muslims,

And we know what Quran says

 

Thanks boys it has been fun.

You two are great ambassadors of Islam.

 

again, you failed to grasp something very simple, if Islam needed a defender, or an ambassadors, it wouldn't have spread, Islam power is the power of truth to which people come to it by themselves when they feel they want to know it, it is why the non-Muslims entering Islam, is always the most among all other people converting from/to any other religions/beliefs, even in your own country.

by posting here I m only encouraging people to find it by themselves, and do not take anybody's word, including me, and for sure, do not take words' of Islam-haters like yourself,

in normal conditions, I would not post about Islam or Muslims here, but for sure, when I see somebody trying to post his hate, I would like to come and expose him, I know this hater will never change his views because he can't have views of his own, he can only let others or his negative emotions control his/her views, but by posting words for minds, not negative emotions, I might be able to stop him from making others like him, even if it was one, it will worth the effort

so in short words that I doubt you would ever understand, I like to clear the dirt and obstacles being put in the way of those who are seeking truth.

 

What does "find it by themselves" mean to you?

It is late and I am off to bed. Thanks for the posts, they were very entertaining tonight.