Joe Wilson calls President a Liar then his site crashes

Yeah, lets give illegals a drivers license while we are at it so they can vote. Good idea...

 

That's how it is when arguing with people not armed with any truth.

You see how quickly this discussion stopped being about whether or not President Obama lied once I proved he didn't rather handily. They quickly make it ideological because frankly people who are predisposed to believe things even when it doesn't make sense are literally all they have left. It's only audience they are left performing for. Sad really...

 

Are you speaking the first person?

Someone where has not read HR 3200.

Stop drinking the kool-aid. Its making you appear stoopid.

 

lol you've been doing this forever. The whole pretending you know something I don't know but don't have the balls to quote is getting tired

Make your argument, present the facts, what are you afraid of?

Do you realize how silly you sound pretending I haven't researched HR 3200? The very facts and direct quotes I presented in this thread are from HR 3200.

You've got your fingers in your ears going la la la so much you completely missed that point didn't you? You're so desperately clinging to the one glimmer of hope you had that maybe just maybe I hadn't read it that you can't see I clearly have.

You're not stupid, you're just conservative.

 

Quote what specifically? Any time I provide you guys with direct conclusive evidence you ignore it. I do your work for you and you are still lazy. Sorry, I'm just not going to be doing the ground work for your guys anymore.

Afraid? No. Like I said, even when I do your work for you still ignore reality. Why waste my time proving you wrong. Disprove me. Stop being so God awful lazy.

Wow, here I present a direct quote, and actual document, even provided links to it in the past, as well as citing specific parts of it that make my point, and still refuse to read the document.

Its pretty clear by your own admission and obvious here say reality and presentation of misinformation that you never have even bothered to read through HR 3200.

Its obvious that you have not read past the letters H and R.

 

As with many potential changes the big picture of changes and improvements in the health care system are being blocked by two entities that endlessly harp on smaller issues, the illegal alien issue being one of them.

The two groups that are leading the anti health care entity are insurance companies and the extremist elements of the far right. The insurance industry has been fighting changes for decades. Take a look at their efforts and alliances from this insider who has a better perspective than all those hot air folks here at DP http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/1...wendell_porter

It is an amazing revalation.

Ultimately the extremist far right wing wants no changes at all. In Congress, there is no bill at this time. There are 5 proposals coming from different committees.

When Obama spoke in front of Congress he carefully demonstrated in his speech an incredible awareness of the issue with regard to illegal aliens.

Instead of quoting 46 million Americans without health insurance he quoted a number in the 30 millions. Analyses have suggested the number in the 40 millions reflects illegal aliens and the lower number doesn't.

Maybe Joe Wilson isn't good with facts. Maybe he can't count. I've seen examples here in DP where the representatives of the Far Right and their heros can't even count....like here for instance. These guys can't even get close to small numbers such as the number of states that voted for Obama versus McCain correct.

How can they get any sense of big numbers in the millions?

Meanwhile, every year insurance coverage costs go up. I've been paying for insurance on an individual basis and getting business coverage for myself and employees for a long time. The increase in insurance coverage costs has far outpaced inflation rates and anything else over a long time.

It is a problem that is eating up American dollars like few things. Take a look at simple chart.

Fortunately it has small numbers not big numbers. Even the extremist right wingers might grasp its meaning.


Basically, with out reform the costs to you, with insurance, and the system as it is, are going to skyrocket. Some of you with insurance will lose it. If you suffer a major illness without insurance you will go bankrupt. Medical problems are the largest cause of personal bankruptcy.

During the speech by Obama he turned to the GOP and said, I like some of your ideas. He turned to the left portion of the Dems and said back off
some of your ideas.

He is trying to get a program that works rather than the existing situation that is slowly choking the entirety of America. He made compromises right in front of all of Congress and the American public.

Joe Wilson on the other hand did something no other individual Congressman had ever done. For that he was condemned by evey member of Congress right there.

Maybe Joe Wilson should take a math class...and maybe Joe Wilson should start thinking of the big picture rather than being another example of the extemists who want NO CHANGE.

 

And that was?

 

I guess you missed it, Mia. Hasn't stopped you from commenting though.

Lets review.

In the midst of a speech by the President in the halls of Congress before a joint session of Congress, one member of Congress yelled out alone.

He called the President a liar.

That incident, by a single member of Congress had never been done in a speech by a President. It was unprecedented.

Every member of Congress who was cited said right then, that what Wilson did was wrong. Every single one. Dems and GOP alike. That response was unanimous.

In fact Wilson apologized. He acknowledged he was wrong.

That is all very clear.

Meanwhile, my major point remains. This issue of Wilson is one more example where a very large issue of great importance to the entire nation is being ripped apart by side tracking issues and attacks.

An insider from the upper levels of the insurance industry specifically worked to help direct the efforts to fight any kind of health care reform in the US.

He then witnessed the horror and magnitude associated with lots of Americans being without health care. He personally saw how devastating it was to Americans.

It changed his perspective. He reveals exactly how the insurance industry joined with other opponents to health care reform and particulary the Extremist Right Wing to fight changes.

Read it. http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/1...wendell_porter

Its about real Americans.

Getting back to Joe Wilson. In doing something unprecedented, and against House Rules he showed an incredible lack of respect for the office of the presidency and the Congress.

Moreover, as Obama quoted a number of uninsured, that if Wilson was even mildly following facts, would have realized Obama is "closing the door" on any opportunity for illegal aliens to be part of this program, Wilson still managed to do that which even he recognized was totally inappropriate.

Wilson acted inappropriately, and in doing so, additionally showed he is not paying attention to facts.

He represents an extremist faction. He doesn't want any change. He'd rather be one of the yellers and screamers.

He doesn't seem to give a crap that health care costs, whether it hits the government or hits individuals is rising to a level that shuts out all other expenses.

In America right now, big critical issues are being ripped apart by extremists and blatent scare tactics. Its a crying shame.

 

I see... So in other words what we need are more Joe Wilson's.

Its about time the people take back their government and their voice!

 

Soo... you're not going to post any quotes?

What I'm saying is that all you're doing is telling me something is in the bill and I'm telling you it's not. Or in other words it's the equivalent to me saying -- "there is proof in the bible that Jesus was homosexual! Read it damnit"!

Doesn't make it true and doesn't present any specific points to refute does it?

So we're both sitting here saying what is and isn't in the bill. All I'm saying is... show me what you're talking about because I don't see it. You could easily put an end to this by simply doing that.

But I'm predicting you won't.... again. The very fact that it is so obvious you could simply do that and you're not is what I'm questioning. I don't want your interpretation of what it says, I want to see exactly where it says that.

=========================
EDIT/PS

I hope you're not talking about this quote because we've already had this exchange... Note you had no rebuttal:

 

Wow. This is the best explanation of the mainstream Democratic party that I have ever read.

Ever notice that for the past 30 years, the DNC always claim that they are fighting for something, but they never seem to get what they are fighting for? EVEN WHEN IN THE MAJORITY?

The Democratic Party treat the poor and minorities like they are pets. They praise them while demanding obedience and for them to stay in their place.

The Democrats are going to drown in their own hypocrisies.

 

Are you really that lazy? Read the bill.

 

Doesn't this sound exactly like George W. Bush's plan? Which the Democrats endorsed?

It sounds like Obama doesn't want Bush to get credit where credit is due - so Obama is probably going to make a minor change to Bush's plan and then Obama takes credit for something he didn't do, right?

Because - all together now: Democrats would rather hurt all Americans than help Republicans.

Um, unlike what today's Liberals like to believe, there are no "degrees" of lying. Either something is true, or it isn't.