Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah a

I didn't say Ibn Sa'd invented it, but I said he didn't check every story he wrote.

In islam, we have the historian who record the stories they hear from the people they face regardless of the validity of these stories.

And we have the people of Hadith, who check each story mentioned and look for the sources to verify wheather the stroy is right or wrong. (see the post of Imad and the link he gave at the end).

Nothing to do with opinions on here. this is a religion, not opinions. It must be kept as it is.

Some good things are mentioned in the history books, but they are not based on anything. (why shall we accept them if their sources are invalid?)


Also, can you tell us how the blind man came to that woman at night and entered her home and killed her alone without suffering her child who was sucking her breast?

For me, I believe people must pay the price of their words.

If you suggest that I must be killed, then some people killed me, but you didn't participate in the murder physically, you are still responsible about that crime and you should pay the price of your words and opinions against me.

Do you believe that we should pay the price of our words/actions?

 

How does this question relate to this thread? We are discussing Ibn Sa’d, muhammad, and the poets he had murdered. We've already established that you approve of Ibn Sa’d and muhammad.

 

Since you want me to accept some stories that are not true, I asked that question to satisfy you.

I don't believe that story to be true, but I do believe that we must pay the price of our words.

If you don't accept this rule from me, then you can accept it from browntwn as he is jewish like you.

he said to me before that Ben Laden is paying the price of expressing his opinion about what people should do with US.

 

Yes, you finally understand the logic as to why some people think Islam and the Quran are responsible when Muslims read its words telling them to kill.

 

I understand your logic.

But you have to know that reading the story from the middle is your problem, we read the story from the begining.

You can consider the policeman as criminal, if you don't wish to see him within context (i.e. responding to the real criminal(s)).

We don't consider the policeman as criminal, we consider him peace defender.

If you are ignorant, why shall we behave ignorantly?

We know what you don't know or what you don't wish to know, and we are supposed to stick to the Truth that you lack, not to miss it and be back down to your level.

 

Since we are discussing Muhammad murdering poets, how does your question "Do you believe that we should pay the price of our words/actions" satisfy me in any way? What price did these poets need to pay for simply exercising freedom of speech - they didn't pose a physical threat. Sort of like Danish cartoonists, Salman Rushdie, apostates of islam - they are not posing a physical threat, they simply disagree. Is islam so weak that it must intimidate and silence all that disagree?

In other words, you are denying and defending it at the same time. These poets did not want to follow Muhammad's cult, and certainly had the right to speak their mind, just as you do and just as I do. Abu `Afak wrote a mild poem in protest of Muhammad having someone murdered - He was a 120 year old man, who apparently believed Muhammad was a loser, and urged others not to follow him. For this Muhammad had Abu `Afak murdered, and when Asma wrote a poem in protest of the murder of Abu `Afak, she was murdered as well.

In the west, women can actually think and form their own opinions.

It wasn't like Bin Laden was just one of the palestinians out on the street celebrating 911, he wasn't just a protestor yelling "Death to America!" in some backwards middle eastern country, it's actually believed that he assisted in organizing and planning a terrorist attack on our country.

 

Likewise, it is actually believed that Ka'b, assisted in organizing and planning a terrorist attack on our prophet, peace be upon him and his family, who is more valuable than the whole universe for us.

 

Then by the same logic, Polite, you'd say John Stewart assists and plans a terrorist attack on every politician in the United States, and for that reason, is to be murdered? (If not familiar with John Stewart, or what he does - see the link).

You consider satire terrorism, in other words, and the worthy punishment, death?

And this says nothing of the poetess - using words, mere words?

Mind you, I'm not a Jew. To believe that somehow a thing called "Jewishness" impels a revulsion to this, as opposed to a simple, individual, and entirely normal reaction to something one feels abhorrent - well, I call that bigotry.

No; I just happen to disagree with the notion that poets and satirists are to be murdered for their words.

I also marvel at the notion that any deity would have the strength of character of a piss-ant child, who, powerless to do anything itself, asks of its followers to murder others over the equivalent of schoolyard taunts.

God: "I'm gonna tell my kids, and they're gonna KILL you, cuz...cuz....you said my favorite color is charteuse!!!!!!!!!" - kind of silly, when you think about it, isn't it? - until you realize, it isn't silly at all, but grossly abhorrent, because it actually happens; human nature itself rebels, or should rebel, I'd say.

 

From a quick look at the link, he seems to discuss with the politicians, not attacking them.

No.

I consider attacking the truth as the biggest crime, and the source of such crime must be finished.

No life without The Truth, so if you attack the the life, then be happy with death.

 

He is a satirist. Pointedly so. Much the same, it would seem, as the murdered writer.

The woman poetess - also, just a writer. Words. Death?

Hmm. So - don't kill satirists.

Unless the object of their satire happens to be your Prophet, or Allah, or your faith, generally? That about right?

Is "the truth" that weak? What is "the truth" afraid of? How, in god's name, does this philosophy square with the notion - spoken of here, many times - that it is the Muslim duty to question - to take nothing as a given, supposedly, without investigating for oneself?

Finally - how about those of us who have raised some questions here....are we "attacking the truth," and worthy of death?

 

Of course no, this is why the liars are finished. They are the weak.

The Truth is not afraid of anything, but everything must be afraid of the Truth.

No.

If I attacked the Truth, I am finished.

Some questions are too heavy for you to raise, so if you raise them, be careful not to fall down on your head, then you will be dead.

 

Wow Ripping on Muslim in a funky way.

 

It is posts from Muslims like "Polite teen" that have given me such a bad impression of Islam.

I love how you have no shame in threatening people with death for daring to have questions. In all seriousness I have great pity for you. What a sad and ignorant way to live life.

Where do we get the crazy notion that Islam is violent. Uh, maybe when Muslims tell people that asking the wrong questions about Islam may lead to your death! What I find equally as shocking is that the Muslims on this forum do not run someone like this out of the forum. Their silence in the face of this representation of Islam speaks volumes.

 

This is the main difference between science and religion.
Sciences poses questions that may never be answered. Religion provides answers that may never be questioned.

 

True dat. True dat I love it.
Can I borrow that or is it not your to loan in the first place

 

someone else said it first, i can't remember who.

 

May I disagree with you on these two issues?

"The Truth is not afraid of anything, but everything must be afraid of the Truth."

As far as I understand it the scriptures say "the Truth will set you free", Satan is the one who does not want people to know the Truth. So people should know the Truth and should be able to know the answers to their questions. People should be able to freely ask anything they don't understand. Banning people from asking questions is banning them from knowing the Truth.
I don't see a reason for people to be afraid of the Truth unless somebody wants to hide something from them.


".... Some questions are too heavy for you to raise, so if you raise them, be careful not to fall down on your head, then you will be dead.... "

This sounds like framing people into somebody's beliefs, and as I have seen it, it is normally dictators who don't want people to know the Truth about themselves and their deeds.


I am working now on a book (translating thoughts) about Love, Wisdom and Truth (from Beinsa Douno) and can tell you what I have learned differs from what you are saying about the Truth.
Here is something related to the Truth:

"God is Love, God is Wisdom, God is Truth. In other words Love, Wisdom and Truth comprise the three fundamental things through which God is manifested. ...If you have Love, Wisdom and Truth they are the only reality on which you can count on. ... "
Beinsa Douno

"Truth is that great law or that essense that frees man from all contradictions.
Truth is that great law which shows us the way of Love.
The wish of the Truth is to give us freedom".
Beinsa Douno

 

True, I very much agree with this.

Being afraid of the Truth doesn't mean that we don't love the Truth.
Greatness causes fear and attract you as well.

Although I was joking, you cannot deny the fact in that joke.

Also, it is true that not all questions are valid for me to ask.

I shall not question others about their own privacy, nor shall they question me about my onw ones.

Privacy is a right that must be respected and preserved.
Violating privacy is a crime.

Ask the questions that are valid for you to ask, this is politness and of the high characters.

If you are a source of hate, stupidity and lies, you will be finished by God, the Source of Holy Love, Wisdom and Truth.

This is how I see it.

 

I think DP has become a islamic lovefest.

love in islam is to kill those who don't agree with their messenger - mohamud...

Maybe the word for love is really hate in english? That would take all of the confusion out of understanding mohamud.

 

are thereas many chirstian threads and jesus threads in DP than islam related threads ?
Some one is sitting at home jobless i blv.