Fact is, Obama (maybe not the far left but Obama) has said since day one that he is for a bill that is budget neutral. Go look that up, then get back with me and we can continue this discussion on the premise that we are both equally informed because apparently you are not. The man is open to ideas. If the conservatives would come to the table to help figure out how we can do this and keep it budget neutral instead of forcing us to waste time on stupid shit like fighting off fear mongering we could get there. Just being against it for the sake of beign against it isn't helping anyone. If it weren't for Obama fighting off the far left we'd have pushed this bill through a long time ago. They don't need a single Republican vote.... That is a fact. He has asked the Republican legislators numerous times for their input. They have none. Wait.... let me clarify that. They don't have any that they'd like to be discussed as openly and publicly as the Democrats. Because in the end when the question is asked what their "plan" will do for the millions of uninsured right now the answer is flat out nothing. Tort reform isn't going to get these people insured. <-- I challenge you to prove me wrong. I LOVE this argument! Looks like you guys have nothing to worry about then right? No way the government is going to get this right. The public option will fail. But hmmm.... the guys a lot smarter than you or I in big health insurance seem to be worried. Can you tell me why? By the way can I count on you to start a social group that wants to get rid of all of those programs so we can make fun of you? Ok I guess I said all that to say this. Stop drinking the damn kool-aid and think for yourself. This is called health care reform for a reason. It's an opportunity to fix the problems that are causing those issues you happily pointed out. Get it? We can fix those things. We HAVE TO fix those things. Because the alternative is to hand it over to the private sector. And you've seen how well that has worked over the past 5 decades. What exactly do you think the free market is going to do to correct itself it hasn't done in the past 50 years? <-- Anyone feel free to answer. That's fair. Now prove to me you're not just regurgitating talking points and make a recommendation as to what we should do if not the presently proposed HCR. "My government is a joke" sounds like you just give up. If that is the case so be it. Stand aside and get out of the way. Otherwise you're just more noise that we don't need in the grown up debate. Who said I don't? I've agreed multiple times on this forum with the likes of Mia and even *gulp* the notorious robjones, that tort reform is an essential part of what should be our HCR plan. Stop denying people for pre-existing conditions? CHECK! Those should all be part of it. But they aren't going to do anything for the millions of people who will go bankrupt for the next few years because of health care costs and getting raped by their insurance companies. Would you agree? And btw.... insurance companies can always find a way around regulations. Or even pass the costs on to us. Competition is the only thing they would truly respond to.
GeorgeB... ROFL! I lay out failure examples of our government touching healthcare coverage in other areas and you go on to say our government is now going to fix the problems and you say *I'M* drinking the "kool-aid" ROFL! I agree you could totally be right here. On top of it, with the direction we're going China could have turned out to have made a very bad investment in us lol.
One problem with that though: China still has manufacturing. They could suffer a total currency collapse, but still remain a powerhouse.
Sigh, trying to have a discussion with someone who is uninformed is so futile.... I'd ask what you propose to do if it can't be fixed...... or whether you believe we should just get rid of those programs; but I kinda already did that in my last post and you didn't possess the thought processes necessary to form a good response. So you chose to blather.... But when you don't fully grasp even your own position on a subject I guess I can't expect much more from you can I?
Obama, you, and nobody else can come up with a way to fund it other than foreign loans to start it and massive taxing to cover it. We've learned from Medicare to expect it to go way over their predicted budget so enjoy the ride and ignore the clock! http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Since you can't address one of the biggest factors of this plan (funding) then what's the point in bickering back and forth? You love to make claims like people are against it are uninformed, are conservative republicans who are pro insurance companies, and only want this to fail... that is just hot air generalizing. You would think since the government works for us and makes money by taking money from us (taxes), they would want to be on this efficient and great plan they're putting together. But it's not the case, they shot down the bill that would require them to be on this plan they're putting together for their people and instead want to use our tax dollars for a less efficient private plan. Why do you think that is? Maybe cause this public option won't be near as good? But wait, Obama said over and over he wanted to make a health plan for Americans to be covered like they are in government. He said great coverage shouldn't be for some elite class but for everyone. Suck up your pride for a second, take a step back and look at the facts and history, not what the salesmen we call "government" are telling you.
@GeorgeB, all you have is empty rhetoric on a thread filled with educated people. Wow, you can't even present Obama's GOOD points properly, can you? And it's obvious that your recent posts are all partisan rhetoric - you don't have a personal ideology that crosses party lines, do you? I honestly can't figure out GeorgeB's intent - is he really a sincerely blind Obama supporter, or is he a right-winger deliberately trying to make his Obama position look foolish???
I asked some pretty clear and concise questions in my posts and challenged you to answer them. I wouldn't be so bold if I weren't willing to accept the consequences of being wrong. The tone of my post was pretty darn clear so I'm not sure where you're coming from? I obviously want to see some Republican ideas. I agree with tort reform, insurance industry regulation and a few other things conservatives have admitted they agree with too.... So what were you saying again? If you're looking for my intent it's clear. I'm trying to get those who are opposing HCR to either give really good reasons why along with good alternatives or admit they are opposed to it for political reasons. My ideological position was clear too. I can literally sum it up in ONE sentence. I believe health care in the United States of America should be a right, not a privilege. That ideology DOES cross party lines because if we work together we can make sure no one in the U.S. goes without health care. And THAT is something we should all be able to agree on. Does that help? You see sir you literally have me confused with a "Obama is the messiah" worshipper. The ONLY reason Obama got my vote instead of Clinton was because of his position on HCR. That's why I'm so passionate about the subject. I'm also not someone who thinks his plan is super duper perfect and can't be denied. To the contrary I don't think his plan is perfect but in order for you to bash it I need 2 things from you. 1) Clear and concise reasons backed with provable facts (i.e. links to actual legislation verbage). 2) An alternative plan of your own that does just as much if not more for the American people. p.s. feel free to prove me wrong on any of those accounts if you can.
Does the term budget neutral ring a bell for you? I bolded it in the very first sentence of post #1041. Obama stated it even more clearly last night. He will not sign a bill that adds to the deficit. He said that in the biggest speech of his presidency before both Democrats and Republicans in Congress and before 10s of millions of Americans watching. So there ya go, you have it on YouTube for all eternity Now what? Now you can either work together to achieve that goal or you can keep proving how uninformed you are by continuing to argue it's going to bankrupt the nation. HCR will not bankrupt the nation because if it adds to the deficit he won't sign it. Now we need to figure out how to get there. What's your input?
Obama has always said things that sounded great to his followers. Things like closing Gitmo, getting our troops home, passing a stimulus that would slow unemployment and keep it from reaching double digits. Seems like we could go forever on this topic of things he said that turned out to just not happen like people thought. He's no different than most politicians in this area, he's just better at it than many. He had me encouraged on some of his promises as well at points. The money has to come from somewhere, it's not invented. If they say they can come up with a way to fund it without tying it directly to a loan from China, you're just being played because the money/debt is just being shifted around. Unless the country 100% STOPS taking on new foreign debt, that's what's paying for it. If you use all your savings to buy a new sports car then turn around and have to use your credit card to buy food and new clothes for your kid you're only fooling yourself. You may have not taken a loan for that car but it still is the cause of your new debt. I understand your feelings on wanting healthcare coverage to be a right. However, I feel everyone should have access to health coverage at an affordable cost. At that point it should be up to the person to be responsible as a free citizen to buy it rather than use it to buy new clothes or smoke crack. Now, if you could only understand the other side of it which doesn't want the government to control more of our lives, to mismanage yet ANOTHER health plan, this time for the whole nation. People who want to TRY to fix things using other means that directly impact the current issues rather than rip everything we know apart and have blind faith the other side of the mountain will be better and not bury us in debt.
Where YOU are coming from can be interpreted as empty rhetoric. It sounds nice on a campaign trail, but here your words ring hollow. The whole situation of "budget neutral" is a political phrase, because nothing can be budget neutral - it's bureaucratically impossible. But it's not your fault for not knowing that because, on the surface, I know it DOES sound reasonable, I used to believe that, too. Let me be more forceful in what I had stated previously - for me, it begins and ends with tort reform, period. I believe that, if we institute serious malpractice tort reform, the entire health care issue will take care of itself. For example, yes, there have been cases where critically sick people have been dropped from coverage because their drugs have become so expensive that the insurance companies raise their premiums to the point where the sick person can't pay the premiums anymore. But one big part of the cost of that expensive drug isn't the chemicals - for lifesaving drugs where the sick is close to death, more of the cost per pill goes to pay for INSURANCE than for the chemicals that go into the thing!!! According to my family doctor, proper tort reform would drop the price of common medical procedures and drugs by MORE THAN 50%. MORE THAN FIFTY PERCENT! Also, what Democrats like Obama, that have no business experience, do not understand is that you do NOT try to fix a large problem all at once. That's a recipe for disaster. Whenever you are trying to fix a large problem, start with the root cause - which in this case is tort reform. Then, after you've gauged the effects and fixed problems, you move onto the next initiative, gauged it's effects and fixed problems, and so on. When three doctors tell you that because of complications the baby cannot be delivered alive, and the fourth doctor tells you there's only a 20% chance the baby will be delivered alive, but he's willing to try, and the baby dies, and the doctor is successfully sued for everything he has including the fillings in his teeth, three things happen: 1. The price of malpractice insurance jumps for all doctors, who pass that along to their patients, which makes the cost of health insurance jump, 2. The price of malpractice insurance for courageous doctors skyrockets straight to Mars, who pass that along to their patients, whose health insurance will refuse to pay for the procedure because it's too risky, and then, 3. Doctors stop performing many risky lifesaving procedures, insurance companies stop paying for them, and both tell the patient "there's no hope, yer gonna die/lose the baby" The U.S. Constitution is not clear as to whether or not health care can be a legal right - it can be argued both ways. And elevating health care to legal right status can create lots of complications, such as threatening the legality of abortions. And what if it's a legal right and you get sick while your doctor is on vacation - is your doctor required to rush home and treat you (there's tort reform again!) Most probably, health care can easily be justified as a privilege, like a driver's license, which means that most U.S. citizens easily qualify as long as they perform some minor activity (like fill out the damn forms!). thank you for clearing that up, sorry if I confused you with one of the zealots.
Good News For Obama. Obama is bouncing back in all of the polling since his Health Care Speech. It's clear that when Americans know what health care reform is really about (ending discrimination against those with pre-existing conditions, regulating the health care insurance industry, lowering costs, increasing access) that they support it overwhelmingly. When Americans find out that doctors also overwhelmingly support the public option, that should really give the whole thing a kick in the pants. Sure the right wingers have been yelling really loudly at the town halls and at their ridiculous "teabagger" events but the facts are not on their side. The average American doesn't care about this conservative vs. liberal ideology nonsense. They care about what works. And it's obvious that our healthcare system, as is, does not work.
Seems that Rasmussen see's it a lot differently: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ministration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll The health care speech did nothing to boost his support with anyone other than those that already bought into it.
It's nice to hear that Obama's rating is now going up since the recent Health Care speech he made. But it's just one of the many problems that he is facing nowadays and needed to be solved. Unemployment, for the record, has reached around 7 million in America alone since Dec. 2007. Maybe, if this is the issue to be tackled, Obama's rating will surely fall again. He should do something about unemployment problem immediately.
@icebreaker, you have your facts wrong. President Obama's popularity got a 6-point boost after the speech, and then he lost it four days later. And even when this popularity was high, why couldn't Obama get anything important passed? And why did George Bush get so much done when his popularity was the pits? Is it because POPULARITY IS NOT IMPORTANT??? The Democrats should have done something about unemployment. They didn't, and they won't. That's because the Democrats would rather hurt Republicans than help this country.
You know, President Obama has made a lot of speeches - I thought I remember he has made over 400 speeches since inauguration. And now, he's going on a media blitz - including five Sunday talk shows (but not Fox, he's afraid to go on Fox), and Letterman on Monday! Is this MORE important than the matters of state he should be working on??? He doesn't seem very busy.