The Palestinian Israeli conflict in 9 words by Matt Giwer, © 2009 [May 5] Have you heard so much about it you lost interest? Has what you heard been so hopelessly complicated you have given up? Here is all you need to know and all there is to know about the subject. Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. There you have the sum and substance of the entire conflict. Everything else you have ever heard about it is nothing more than trying to avoid this very simple and obvious expression of the entire conflict. The Jews, euphemistically called the Zionists or the Israelis, did in fact steal the land from the Palestinians. They actually bought and paid for at most 9% of it. In 1948 they took over 73% of it. Do the math. They expelled 750,000 Palestinians from their land and stole it. Most of the 200,000 or so they did not manage to expel were driven off their land into ghettos and their land was stolen. If you are not a Jew in Israel you have as much chance for justice as a Black in the South a century ago. You may have heard the Palestinians did not really own it but rather landlords in Turkey or Egypt owned the land and the Palestinians just rented. I do not know where this quibble is supposed to lead. It is an admission of theft. The only disagreement is from whom it was stolen. You may have heard the holy holocaust made it necessary. Problem with that is the plans to steal someone's land were laid before Hitler was born. The decision to steal Palestine was made before the first world war when Hitler was just a struggling artist in Vienna. The open use of violence started while Hitler was in prison for the Beer Hall Putsch and writing Mein Kampf. But even after their holocaust, does that mean Palestinians have to suffer? If there was a case to be made based upon their holocaust they might have a strong case for claiming Bavaria or some other part of Germany. Historical claims, real or biblical, have no standing in society. If they really believe their god gave the land to them then they have a gripe with their god for taking it away from them. They have no complaint with the Palestinians. Besides, the Palestinians are simply people whose ancestors were Jews but converted to Islam. No, the UN did not give the land to the Jews. The land was not theirs to give. The UN only recognized the Jewish government of Israel while demanding the return of the Palestinians to their land and property. Sovereignty is not ownership. There are dozens of other transparent arguments which try to cover the simple facts of Jewish theft and the stolen private property of the Palestinians. They are all attempts to divert the discussion from those two simple facts. Be diverted if you wish. But never say it is more complicated than those two simple statements. source
What concerns me is the settlements that keep on popping up. This is a clear sign that they dont want peace, then there is hamas which responds to this. We need the moderates on both sides to come out and say "enough is enough" "Is this land worth all of these lives?" Anna baltzar is one of the most incredible jewish activists and she really explains the settlement situation best and how much friction it is causing and how by the time the palestinians are ready to negotiate for peace, there will be no land for them to negotiate with. Anna is an amazing woman because she is fighting for peace and the truth. Plus shes sexy , I wouldnt mind hanging out with a woman like that. Beautiful, sexy as well as fighting for the truth. Imad I know all about the past, but right now I think the israeli government should stop teh illegal settlement building and the palestinian people should adopt a more pragmatic stance on what they expect in return. This is the only way for peace to happen now and for the senseless brutal deaths on both sides to stop.
Imad, you are really not doing yourself or the Palestinian cause any good by posting trash from hate sites. Here is some more trash from the site you quoted. http://giwersworld.org/911/911-facts.phtml http://giwersworld.org/holo/index.html So read it all guys. http://giwersworld.org/ There's basically nothing that this guy doesn't hate. You have a big problem Imad. The world of free mass information is just not suitable for your brain's analytical capacities. A result of too many hours at the mosque instead of in front of books or investing time to think philosophy nature people and what's in between. In a perfect world, the people who are responsible the crime of your miseducation should have been put behind bars. ×מור לי מי רבך ו×גיד לך מי ×תה Jewish Proverb: "Tell me who your rabbi is (=who educated you/from where you get your info and opinions), and I will tell you what good are you"
ah, so he is antisemitic, and I m nuts? is this what you are trying to say? another marvelous attempt of Chaostrivia to discuss the persons, and escape discussing the issue, I see in you a new browntwn, congratulations thanks for the links, you know what attracted my attention more, is the 27 million holocaust survivals, that article makes much more sense than the Israeli declarations: Israel declares there was no Holocaust Extermination: 27 million Jews survived the holocaust I know what you want to say, that he and me, are antisemitic, terrorist, nuts, S.O.B. mentally ill, crazy, his mind can't do simple analysis ...etc, I have heard this a lot from browntwn and you before, but this is not the question here, I m used on the 99% empty posts you have trying to discuss persons rather than the issue, the problem, can you refute what he said there? I dare you
imad, there is no reason to try to convince you that the holocaust occurred. Either you believe it or not. What difference does it make to me - why would anyone waste their time trying to convince you. It would be like trying to teach a donkey to talk. Citing these positions, these sites, you are making a fool of yourself, and by extension, your religion. Your desperation to insult Jews leads you to post from unsophisticated and disgraceful websites. Just because you accept hate from any source does not mean the rest of do. You just look like a fool trying. I like when you post things like this - showing all the world what you hold up as worthy. These posts define you.
same as above browntwn, read my post again, you criticized me, the author, the site, its design, but did not refute any of it's contents, just like Chaos, when he posted some links, and wanted us to laugh maybe? sorry, it does not work that way, except with fools, whom do not use their minds, if you think the contents are lies, it will be easy to refute them, right? if you do not, then all these bad words you say, will only be good to describe yourself, you even concluded that we hate Jews (antisemitic as usual) bluh bluh to try again to paint all Jews as Zionists, when they are not, and did not refute anything, so please, try to stop crying "antisemitic" everytime you do not like the subject, if you do not like the subject, simply do not participate in it, if you want to participate in it, then find something else than crying "antisemitic" always, but I think that you do not have anything to participate in such discussions except whining always "antisemitic antisemitic" you should realize that abusing it so much will make you the antisemitic, and no, it does not work as you suggested, it is not either believe this or not, people usually ask for evidence, proofs, make studies, at one side, you criticize some religious for taking it as it is and do not use their minds and think (despite they do) and here you want people to believe it or not without using their minds and think, you are free of course to believe whatever you want, but if others want to use their minds, and not be fooled, it should not bother you that much.
Sorry pingpong I had to delay replying your post, wanted to deal with the usual thread hijack attempts by browntwn and chaos, before getting back to topic, You are right, settlements been spreading like cancer in the Palestinian lands since long, and they never stopped, not even during peace negotiations, this is a clear sign that the purpose is always to fool the public, and mislead them into thinking that: Israel wants peace, Israel is the victim, Israel is only defending itself and more of these lies that been repeated so many times until unfortunately some believed it. Israel does not want peace, and is not a victim, and is not defending itself, but trying to steal more. The good thing, this is about to change, it is changing in fact slowly, by increasing the awareness about the issue, among those who are far from this region, there been so many layers and layers of propaganda that been set since Zionism came to steal Palestine, that would take so long and big effort to remove them, to get to the truth, at the past it was very easy to set these layers, now it is very hard to add new layers, most of the efforts done by Israel is to keep on the old layers, which of course, wont success because truth is always stronger than their lies, no matter how good they are in lying.
Well of course he isn't antisemitic! http://giwersworld.org/israel/dirty-jew.phtml He just "calls for an investigation"! in agreement with what I said, but better put into words, like always p.s. he is not only anti-semitic. He is also anti globalisation, anti-american, anti-blacks, anti-immigration, just read his glorious website and don't forget to print it and hang it in your childrens' rooms, to pass on the good education.
A few points 1) Before Israel, that land was a British colony 2) Before being a British colony it was part of the Ottomon Empire. 3) When the jews first came to Israel they actually bought the physical land from the arab owners. Then when the arab countries invaded Israel for the purpose of destroying it, the arab countries then lost that land. Next time don't aggresively invade a country for the purpose of wiping it out. 4) The arab countries are about the size of the US, and Israel is about the size of NJ. If the arab countries truely cared about the "palestinians" they would invite them back to their countries. 5) Israel has been extremely generous in negotiations, however, the arab leadership, cares more about killing jews, then about helping palestinians. 6) You don't give in to terrorists who target civilians. 7) The goal of the arab leadership is to destroy Israel period. There is no reason Israel should help them do it.
Actually, discoveries show Neanderthals to be the original human occupiers of today's Israel and surrounding area and you're all trespassers. Oh wait... we, as modern day humans pushed them to extinction so that makes it ours. Now, which group of us should be allowed to live there is the question. I KNOW! let's fight it out and let the victor live and rule there just as what's happened with most of the countries of the world... oh wait again... you say this has already been done and the world recognized the land as Israel owned and ruled by the Jews? OK, it's settled then!
And I innocently thought that we're talking about a local, unimportant but interesting, Israeli-Palestinian conflict rather than about the conflict between the "crusaders" (as ben-laden calls the U.S.) and their jewish friends against the followers of the religion of peace If i'm not mistaken there are many christian palestinians
You bet there are and equally good at terrorism. Maybe even better. After all it was George Habash, a Palestinian doctor an Orthodox Christian that led the "Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) ". Never heard of them? Can you say "hijack"? I bet you can. Christian palestinian girls better not mess with boys ouside their own religion. Christian fathers are equally good at "honor killing".
All true. And this is exactly the problem I had with new's post, that indirectly said: Palestinians = Muslims, Muslims = Palestinians. How can a person have such a 1 dimensional (black/white) view of everything, I mean, EVERYTHING - world politics, religions, history, and live in the west? this is so puzzling.
Ah yes New. But is she alone in her thinking??? How many others (christian, muslims, atheist,etc) like her on this forum (or any for that matter) believe the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is all about religion? Don't bother answering. Wait. No doubt the likes of <insertnamehere> will enlighten us shortly with the Truth
That would explain a lot then. Nothing like submitting to oppression in an effort to appease those that would kill you.