The day Israel used a boy aged 13 as a Human Shield

The funniest part about this complaint is that Israel would kick the shit out of Palestine if every other country stayed out of it. That is not what they want. They have no problem with countries (Iran) helping Palestinians (Supplying them with arms) they just want the upper hand - no shit. So does everybody in every conflict. What merit-less complaint will the Palestinian supporters make next?

Seriously, Arabs and Muslims wont be happy with Israel until it takes active steps to cause its own destruction - and even then they would complain anyway.

 

Spot on... That pretty much spells it out!

 

None of them are ready, they have nothing to win or lose and therefore no will to compromise.

 

they will both win. you are right in a sense that they are both used to this state of stalemate or whatever one wants to call it. both are scared of change and what if it brings something worse. but at the same time both want the change and want this to end. and they do need that push. but i do not think that push has to be an escalation of the war. i hope not, and i hope every person do everything they can to reassure them of the positiveness of the result. there must be guarantees of some sort for each side. i think a military presence of a third party might be necessary as to provide some peace of mind
but there can be agreement on all points of conflict. it is just a regular peace making procedure. i think the current US envoy is fully prepared for such task. furthermore the fact that israelis have a right wing govt is a plus as it gives them more confidence. if hamas can be brought in, it would also be positive. and a dovish us govt is the final peace of the puzzle. also emergence of iran in the scene have provided additional incentive for all parties.
both side should realize that this is the last chance for a two state solution.

 

Great, let's bring another military in to the middle east since there is such shortage of armies there.
UN has been in Lebanon for a long time and what was the result, absolutely nothing.

 

the result is that they had the chance to disengage. and that is what i am looking for

 

ARMY - UN? You do know the difference right? The UN is not an "Army".

If there was an actually military presence there with a clear offensive objective, that would be different.

 

hey pizzaman, check out the homepage of Imad's new quran, the website who sends the words and truths of god upon humanity.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/index.html
yes, this is the key to his house in 1948. it is passed to his son, then to his grandson. None of which will even give up the impractical "right to return". Nobody wants to defy his father's education.

I had a close look at the website, its a very amusing propaganda site. not as amusing as imad though. The 3000 years of Palestinian history was the peak of today.

 

LOL. The famous chicken telling me about military. I was an officer in my country military, please tell us about your experience. Oh, I forgot, you had a big problem with courage and never served, except as a loud mouth.

Are you learning words like offensive from little willy, the x-box general? All the armies in that part of the world have offensive objectives with exception of UN peace keeping force. I know I am wasting my time asking this but please, please for sake of all the members of this forum, try to think before posting.

 

This is the same guy that thought the civil rights movement and segregation started 20 years ago in the US.

Julian, I'm sure you were the leader of the elephant people and took a magical mystery tour too. I bet you even got to swim with the purple pumpkins and chocolate butterflies too.

I'm fairly certain playing ghost recon in mom's basement, or making up stories about the US "20 years ago" hardly qualifies as "military service".

Hey, whatever works for you.

Now are you able to stop acting like a 4 years old for a few minutes and explain just why you support the destruction of Israel?

 

i think most 65% but not all would agree to an exchange for a brand new apartment in bethlahem or another city in west bank or gaza.
they must be presented with a choice. an attractive offer. up to now i do not think they have been offered anything that they consider equivalent. maybe a demo apartment or something like that. they should be enticed with a clear choice that would better their lives and children's lives. not a dump

 

As far as i'm concerned they can go live in something the resembles michael jackson's neverland.
But only beyond the 1967 lines. Israelis can not accept the "right of return", simply because this would mean the destruction of Israel as a modern liberal state, historical home of the jewish people.

 

don't jump the gun
50-60 years is nothing in long term history
time will decide that who will live in neverland

 

any peace agreement is an agreement. so of course both side must be accepting it. and i do understand your point of view.
i didn't see an explanation that you promissed regarding jewish state. did i miss that?
now a personal question if you don't mind? what do you mean by jewish people?

 

lets start with the third question:

Although not valid, but to make it simple, "jewish people" refer to all people in the world who define themselves as "jews" or "Israelis".

Now this is a tricky thing. When I say "a jewish state", I mean: "a state for everybody who cherishes freedom, liberty, science, tolerance" (and not child marriage, polygamy, honor killings, children indoctrination, etc'). When the more religious guys in my country say a "jewish state", the probably mean those who fit my answer to your previous question. In any case, the Palestinians do not fall under both definitions.


Now, please look at this table: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Demographics.2C_1920
There were 0.6 million "palestinians" (=arabs who lived in palestine) in 1922, 1.2 million "palestinians" in 1945, and guess how many are there today? 10 million!!(table to the right). That's an unmatched 10 fold growth in 3 generations time!! In Gaza, the most densely populated and one of the most horrible places on earth, they have 6.19 children per woman.
So I hope you understand why we in Israel can not accept the "right of return" under NO CIRCUMSTANCES. This will necessarily mean that jews will become a minority in 1 or 2 generations, and then we can kiss our wonderful country who believes in freedom, equality, and democracy, good bye!

 

as i said before i do understand what is the issue of israelis with right of return. and as i said before any agreement must be acceptable by both side. i understand that seems to be an impossible task to you, but i believe the answer is what i have proposed. palestanians should return to the new palestine. this should not be considered that they have given up or have lost their right of return. this should be considered that they have returned and their right is fully exercised. further from this angle they do not need israeli approval to exercise their right . in the same light i think israelis can call their country anything they want. they do not need the approval of the palestanians. i believe imad also said that palestanians understand the issue. i think they are looking at this from a symbolic or legal angle. may be the same as you do about jewish state. the point is that you [your people on both side] should realize that once you agree on the borders you can also agree on other legal issues and you do not need these symbolic gestures any longer.
as far as my question, i was wondering how you look at being jewish from an atheist point of view. not related to the palestanian/israeli thing. i personally think the biggest problem is water.

 

lol. yes. this should be considered that they have given up the "right of return". unless you want to redefine what I and Imad call "right of return"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

finally I and Imad agree on one thing and you want to kill this thing too?

If the palestinians agree that nobody of them will have the possibility to return to the 1948 territories, we call it "give up the right of return".

Of course that they should be able to "return" (or..settle) in the 1967 territories! ! - but this is not what is mean in the "jargon" in conjunction with the term "right of return".

A silly word game indeed. The meaning however is not silly.

I will answer about being jewish and atheist some other time... go to catch some sleep at 5:55AM, and water is not a problem at all, provided that there is peace, so don't worry.

 

right of return is not something specially for palestanians. it should not be considered as right to return to a property.
they also have a right to their property, but that is a different issue. the property can be compensated. i do not know if this interpretation is wrong or right legaly but it is the best in my opinion. this is what i am talking about when i say right of return. this is what will allow the peace to hold, palestanians to have a country and blah blah blah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return
by the way you agree on two things. you both want to wait for peace. and i want to make you both give up your wrong ideas. about both things.you can agree as long as you agree with me. life will be better for everyone.

 

this is very typical from Zionists, they will ridicule, they will say lies, they will say propaganda, they will say BS, but they will never refute, because they know very well it is true,

so what part you think is propaganda there Chaos, paste it, refute it, so we can clap our hands for you

 

I stole your car, you have the right to get it back, right?

but sorry, I can't give you that right, because I will be without a car poor me I have no car

but if you gave up the right of getting your car back, I can give you the wheels

would you agree?