The day Israel used a boy aged 13 as a Human Shield

I think it is very interesting that people like to look smart and discuss history and whose fault is it and come up with "smart" ideas how to make everyone a nice person that can get along with each other instead of talking about what is the cause of stalemate in middle east for the last 60 years and the only way that it can be solved.

 

i do not see how talking about the cause is going to solve anything. as a matter of fact it slows things down. and i do not think the process has to be tied to how people feel about each other either. they can feel as they please. it is about a calculated and cold decisions to stop the hostilities and compromise enough to reach a settlement. not even one that they like but one that they can live with. it is not about smart and stupid either. it is understandable that palestanians do not trust israel and are negative about the deal and vice versa.
it is funny at how we are stuck on some points like palestanians have to call israel a jewish state while israelis call themselves a democratic state and palestanians want israelis affirm their right of return as a symbolic measure while they understand that it will not be much more than that.
please stop this. i am talking to both side. get on with peace making. i for one care more about how to end it rather than who started it.

 

Binyamin Netanyahu was one of the greatest opposer of a Palestinian state.
Even Netanyahu, said in a speech recently that he supports the establishment of a palestinian state. None of the ministers in the right-wing Israeli government resigned after that. The Israeli public as a whole is ready for the one and only practical solution menioned in previous posts.

We are waiting for Abbas or Haniyeh (<<--- ?!?!) to say: "We support the right of the jewish people to a state of its own in the land of Israel".
We are waiting for the palestinians to make the same kind of historical declarations, and then signing of peace will be immediate and straightforward.

We in Israel are liberal and smart people. We "evolve". Our mind "evolves". We always keep in mind that our goal is to live in quiet and prosperity, and not be "right". Back in 1993, Rabin went against the public opinion by allowing Arafat to come back to Gaza. Since 1993, as a result, several terrible Palestinian violence campaigns have shaped the Israeli public opinion, who previously rejected any solution with the Palestinian. Basically, the terror won. Now we Israelis say: "we are tired of this shit. Let them have a country in the 1967 and make this shit stop". All Israelis agree to the no-right-of-return-in-1967-areas solution. a.k.a. "We Evolved". The peak of the evolution process was the unilateral withdrawal of military and 7,000 settlers from Gaza.

This is something that has never happened with the Palestinians and if you are learning something about the Palestinian people from what I'm trying to teach you, this could not possibly happen as well. No Palestinian leader will ever speak against the crowds or "lead". The leaders occupy themselves with ensuring the remain on their seat. Arafat died with 2.5 BILLION $$ (!!!), of which, 500 million $ invested in Israeli high-tech........the life of his wife Suha was a one big shopping trip in Paris.
As I told you, arafat wanted to sign the offer in 1999 and end the conflict, but he decided not to and said: "If I sign this, I am a dead man". Instead of looking at our withdrawal from Gaza and "evolving" accordingly, the Palestinians misinterpreted it, elected the Hamas (=a radical islamist group whose ideology is that Palestine will be established only by means of Jihad), and we got 8,600 rockets on southern Israel as "thank you". They educate their children to make sure that their position, which led them to attack us in 1948 and vote for Hamas 2009 - namely, make the jewish state disappear, will remain eternal. Once they believe in something, it is the word of god, there is no place for compromise. Its a different kind of culture, this is what i'm trying to show you. Not pretty much like North Ireland, no?

 

why? why do you want them to call it a jewish state. and when the agreement is made they have to accept it as a state, other than that what are they making a deal with. just thought of something ironic. even iranians call it a state but you do not like that, do you.

 

we don't want them to call it a jewish state. We want it to be a jewish state. the 1948 territories accepted as the home of the jewish people.

They will have to accept Israel as a jewish state (not just a state) before an agreement will be made, naturally.

I don't understand. nothing Ironic. Iranians don't call it a state, they call it: "the zionist entity". I remember reading on the news that an Iranian TV presenter got fired once for saying "Israel" on TV, instead of "the zionist entity"

You seem not to understand exactly the "jewish state" thing. The official recognition of Israel as a "jewish state" that we demand is not just "cosmetics". If you don't understand this issue, let me know.

 

my bad i thought they call it zionist state.
but you are correct i do not understand it. for one why don't you call it the jewish state of israel? and for two why is it important what palestanians call it?

 

Do Americans call them self a "Christian State"? After all the majority are Christians and the Country was established by Christians from all over the World and on Christian values.

Israelis want to be a "Jewish State" and they call themselves the only true Democracy in the Middle East.

Democracy? The statement: "Jewish State" kills all the democracy there might possibly be.
Democracy for one type of People? A state established on ethnic cleansing, evacuation, genocide, execution and terror to its rightful Palestinians residents.

Seems like a fascist and nazist state to me. When did we hear that before? Oh, yes... 1933-1945.

 

in other words Israel is begging Palestinians to give their blessings to this ugly creature called Israel, despite it is Israel who is in control of everything there using force, wars, terrorism, and oppressing.

so Israel can't be Jewish except if Palestinians said so? does not make sense, it was able to be terrorist and apartheid despite Palestinians were rejecting this.

Bigot and racist Israelis need Palestinians to say Israel is Jewish, so they can ethnically cleanse the rest of Palestinians who stayed in 1948, if that came with dropping the right of return, then Palestinians will not have anything legally, this is why there is no progress at all in peace negotiations, because Israel does not negotiate to find a solution, but negotiate to find some legal ways to steal more, proof is in settlements, they never stopped building them even while negotiations were taking place.

 

We are not begging for anything. We are not the ones who live 40 years in refugee camps.

We are just making clear that time has come for the Palestinians to acknowledge that the Jewish people has a right on this land as well. They rejected it in 1948, they keep rejecting it in 2009. But who knows, its never too late, maybe in 2050 they will finally accept the Idea that this land belongs not only to them, but also to the jewish people.

Until then, they can continue crying like a little girl "force" "terrorism" "apartheid" "steal" "bigot" "illegal" "oppression" "ethnical cleansing" (just from imad's last post...), and we don't give a damn. life in Israel is good, actually great.

we waiting for the Palestinians to stop crying and change their ideology to something practical that fits in 2009. if they prefer to cry instead of changing their ideology as needed in order to make peace with us.... that's not our problem. problem: the Palestinian people is incapable of actually doing anything but crying. That's their real tragedy.

want to see a counter example for people who build, create, dream, and realise? gladly.
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=106913&start=0
I stumbled upon this thread in another forum by an Israel-opposer, but still I couldn't agree more with him.

 

There won't be peace as long as Israel uses its force to deny Palestinians right to exist on their own land to which they belonged since and during thousands of years, not just for 70 years 3000 years ago.

a state that existed by power, and depends on power always on its existence will be doomed, as gworld said, power does not stay at one side always, Israel is taking fast steps to another massacre of Jews like it happened 200 times during history, because they are unable to live with others, they always want to live above others and make them their slaves, this will never happen with any nation, and Jews should have enough lessons from history, so they should be the first to stand against Zionism and its tries to drag them again to the same as before.

 

Where did you get that, straight out of Hitlers hand book? Because that sounds very Nazi'ish.

 

Hello? are we living on the same planet?
A short history reminder:
The term "Palestinians" was invented in the middle of the last century, as a collective name for the arab tribes who immigrated to palestine during the 18th and mostly during the 20th century, and got screwed by the zionists . It never existed before!

This is the sad historical truth, stop hallucinating imad.

 

Hello

Chaos, propaganda is effective, but only on the short run, because truth will slowly wipe it off, so I wonder, how you plan to stay living in peace and do such terrible mistake, use propaganda?

I know you do not care if others lived in hell, but we are speaking about peace for you here, lasting peace, and using propaganda? hmm I find it really strange, it tells that you are only depending on power, cos those whom you keep feeding them these lies, will get mad at some point of time, some of them already did when they been drove like cattle to a war with Iraq under recommendations and reports made in Israel, that been proved wrong later, and the purpose was only to drag USA into war with Iraq to protect your Zionists butts.

be careful here, anyway, I wanted to post a refutation for your claims, and again I need to mention, that this is not for you, because you know already what you say itself is lied, yet you say it to hide the truth, I say it to whomever wants to check by themselves, and of course it won't stop at any source I provide, they can always look for more, and always look for proofs, here is a refutation for above propaganda

Why should Palestinians have their own country? Isn't it true that Palestinians never had either a state, nor any distinct culture or language of their own?

note: ignore chaos if he cried not reliable source, all sources are listed there, all are real, and all are documented, and always: you can check yourself. don't let chaos and Zionists fool you more.

 

Actually u're right imad.
Wikipedia.org is "propaganda", palestineremembered.com is "the truth".

A reminder of the truth. Follow the two links, read. and learn. I know that in school and on TV you were taught something different (3000 years..... LOL ), but remember that you did not grow up in a developed, liberal, and democratic place. Education systems that teach lies are integral parts of non-democratic countries. It is inseparable. And I also know that you feel terrible mental pain reading the truth, but you will not "evolve" until you accept it.

Edit:
I followed your link. It is just hilarious!!!!! It proves my truth from above in the most obvious way:
everytime the word "Arabs" occur in quotes, the authors precede it with "[Palestinian]" (in square brackets). No quote from before 1948 contain the word palestinian, yet in this "truth and non-propaganda article", according to imad, all quotes from before 1948 contain the word "palestinian", artificially introduced!
westerns, search for "[palestin" in the text. It occurs 8 times in the quotes that originally never mention a "palestinian people" awsome!

 

wikipedia co-founder himself says that wikipedia is inaccurate:

while palestineremembered, is the voice of Palestinians, which of course Zionists hate it so much if it been heard, if you think it is unreliable, why not people see it and judge for themselves? if it is full of lies, will be easy to refute them, right? but no, it is well sourced, and documented, and it is open for all, even you, to refute, that if you can, but you can't of course, instead you try to bad repute it, before you even see it, just cos it has the word "palestine"

 

Yes, imad does sound like a Nazi.

 

Like Israel? - Sa'ar drops 'Nakba' from Arab textbooks

 

I do not think I am, because if I was first who will admire me and send me offers of collaboration would be Zionists:

5. German Zionism offers to collaborate with Nazism

 

You are a class act imad.

 

lol imad. You are killing me laughing. Best comedy in town

So I followed your link. It is just hilarious!!!!! :
everytime the word "Arabs" occur in quotes, the authors precede it with "[Palestinian]" (in square brackets). No quote from before 1948 contain the word palestinian, yet in this "truth and non-propaganda article", according to imad, all quotes from before 1948 contain the word "palestinian", artificially introduced!
westerns, search for "[palestin" in the text. It occurs 8 times in the quotes that originally never mention a "palestinian people". awsome! ! !


This is even better than "radio baghdad" of Sadam hussein!

A 1 man's circus! He should get his own comedy show.