The day Israel used a boy aged 13 as a Human Shield

You're missing the entire point as usual. Israel isn't in a position to OFFER anything as they are illegal occupiers. You don't break into someones house and then offer them 50% back.

 

The plan is very simple for making peace and it works.

1) USA tells Israel that it will not pay for Israel economic losses in event of war and it will not get involved in any war, no matter what happens to Israel.

2) The world tell Palestinian and Arab countries that they will not interfere in any war between them and Israel, no matter what.

3) The only rule in this conflict is that no one should go nuclear and damage the oil fields or the environment. Any country that goes nuclear, will be destroyed by the rest of the world.

Let them go at it freely to either destroy themselves or make peace and you will have a peace in a very short time.

 

i still belive that majority of palestanians will agree to my proposal. as well as majority of israelis. but it would be delusional to think either all palestanian or all israelis agree to this plan. both side have their hardliners. i am hoping for 65% support from both side.
i think if you ask the palestanians that are living in refugee camps they would have a different answer than the ones that live in their comfortable homes in other countries. i do not think they would want this situation to continue for another 10 years let alone 600.
i think at this time obama should insist on a referandum on the basic principals of a peace agreements from both side.
@gworld.
you can dream or have nightmares as you wish, but a solution must be found with reality in mind.

 

this position by imad http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=12359314&postcount=394
represents the palestinian position. More than 65% of the palestinian public insist on the "right of return", or as I call it, the right to get your money back after you bet in blackjack and lost. They should have tried in 1948 to kick us out and all this conflict would never come to exist. Back in 1948, We never believed that we will survive. And if the arabs were competent enough to win that war, you think that we would have gotten from them "a right to return?".... get real.

Until the Palestinian position changes, all the negotiations that you will see on the news is just a circus.

I don't know what exactly you refer to as "your plan", but to summarize again:
1) Israel offers the area occupied in 1967 after another bad blackjack hand played by the arabs, with no right of return: settlements out, jerusalem arab or international + demilitarization + stop of hate education.
2) All Palestinians insist on the right of return and refuse to recognize a "jewish state" anywhere in Palestine. I mean: ALL.

Israel can not accept the right of return as this will erase the state of Israel as we know it today.
It doesn't get simpler than that. And this is why peace process is stuck and unfortunately it probably not make big progress in the near future.

 

My solution is real and do able, your "suggestions" are just smoke dreams which are good as "intellectual" debates but in reality acceptable by no one.

 

i think they should not only have the right but the opportunity to return to their future homeland.[as i suggested, by building cities in westbank and gaza] i do not make judgment as to what is right and what is not. just looking for a solution that can work.
i do not see why should this be such a stumbling block for them.
maybe imad can explain it to me.
@gworld.
do you see a scenario where US would stop supporting israel?
lets hear it then

 

gworld:
Your solution would have been "real and doable" if the world we live in wouldn't have looked like it looks today...... maybe in some parallel universe
You know that the world will not even consider such a "solution", the world politics just don't work this way.
So its really meaningless to talk if it might work or not.

 

Everything changes in time. As the economical power shifts and the crisis in USA worsens, more and more people will question the cost of supporting Israel and presidents won't need to sell themselves to Israel interests in order to be elected. (part 1 of plan, not here yet)
USA and Europe has already shown that they really don't care about couple of dead Arabs or Asians as the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has shown, so no problem with them not getting involved. (part 2 of plan, already OK)
The world will react to use of nuclear force by counter attack. If USA and European countries can go to war for supposed 3000 dead in 9/11, they will definitely attack if oil fields are being destroyed. (Part 3 of plan, already OK)

My plan can be implemented much sooner than expected, We are just waiting for part 1 of the plan.

 

LOL. interesting plan man.
"hoping the world will change like this and this and this..... , that is what I suggest we do!"

 

I am not hoping, part 2 and 3 are already here. In regard to part 1, I am old enough to remember more than the last 20 years. While I was a child and we traveled in USA, I remember the signs in hotels and restaurants that "Niggers, Jews and dogs" were not allowed. The love of Israel is relatively new phenomena in USA, about 20 years. As the economy worsens and the money from Arab interests starts to pour more and more in American politicians pockets, I will not be surprised to see the diminish of pro-Israel attitude and the rise of anti-Semitism again in USA which neutralizes America in any eventual war between Israel and Arab countries.

 

this will destroy your small childish lie about the right of getting your bet back after you lose in blackjack, I know you will cry: "not reliable source", to try dismiss it, as usual, but for anybody else, truth always is stronger than lies and propaganda, you do not need me, or Chaos, or anybody else to tell you what is truth, and what is lie, you can check yourself, and my hope is that you would check for yourself, don't take anybody's word even if it was me, all the sources are listed there, all are documented

Why did seven well equipped Arab armies attempt to destroy the poorly armed and newly founded 'Jewish State'?

Isn't it true that Palestinians left their homes during the 1948 war because their leaders asked them to do so?

more zionist propaganda and its refutation can be found here

enjoy reading..

 

thank you imad.
I have lost count how many times I told you that I do not follow propaganda/agenda sites.
I look at the target URL and did not click. I leave the propaganda for you, it seems to be everything you know.

Lets stick to BBC, sky, cnn, australian, wikipedia, etc', shall we?

 

What's funny is all the link is, is statements from PROMINENT PRO ISRAELI historians, proving that the so called "defensive war of independence" was nothing of the sort and was on the contary, very offensive in nature.

 

I will try to explain to you here pizzaman, there might be some philosophy here, but I believe it is important to give you the picture as we Palestinians see it,

the right of return as I mentioned earlier, is a right, and it can't be deleted, but it can be denied, Palestinians are not demanding to return, they are demanding the so-called Israel to recognize their right of return, like the rest of the world did, and there is a difference between both and Israel knows this very well,

to say Palestinians do not have the right of return, will automatically delete all other rights, the example below will hopefully make it clear:

you own a house, and I came and kicked you, because I was stronger than you.

you can't get back because I set blocks that you can't pass, and if you tried to pass them, I would harm you or even kill you.

you have the right on the house, and you have ALL right, to return to your house, and even kick me out and if I tried to kill you then, you will have ALL right to defend yourself even if it means killing me before I kill you, cos I was the aggressor not you.

but you can't cos you can't stand my power and all the powers that support my aggression.

later, because you were too annoying, I told you come and you can have a room in your house, but first you need to give up the right of return.

it means you never owned your house, you even do not own that room in your house, you should not get any compensation, and you should not demand for anything else than this room I gave you, which you need a permission every time you want to go out or in, or every time you want to receive a guest, and if I ever see you holding bags, I must search them before allowing you to get them in.

got the idea?

as Arafat said in 2002:

Palestinians have the right of return, we are not speaking about a right of compensation here, we are speaking about both, the right of return and the right to get compensated, but it is Israel that does not recognize it, when Israel recognize it, we will look for a solution for refugees problem, one might be your suggestion, and there are many others.

After Israel recognize this right, they can say we will not allow them back (simply because we are a racist state or whatever reason they might come up with), but we will offer a compensation, so later, it will be Palestinians have the right to return, but they decided not to return.

 

hehehe, expected, and very typical from a Zionist, it proves that you did not even have a look there, yet you were able to judge it as "propaganda/agenda" how is that possible without looking? cos if you did, you will realize that your statement is suggesting that Israelis are propaganda/agenda, if you had a look, you would have noticed that the writer had quotes from pro-Israeli's:

 

always blah blah blah... about justice... and with "examples"....and stories...

its not about who is "right" or "just". Its about who is "smart". And how we get out of this mess:

"justice" as you see it can not be done, because this would mean to reverse history like it didn't happen.
"justice" as I see it is how things look right now - the one who attacked and lost, should pay the price. The jewish people is finally back home - justice is here.

it gets down to:
1) "give up the right of return" or
2) "continue to suffer for another 60 years"

my people, the jewish people, would have picked the 1st option, its crystal clear! we are smart people, we don't have foolish pride!

arabs pick the 2nd option. too bad. their foolish pride will make sure their will suffer for another 60 years while we keep prosper here.

 

as smart people, you should have expected that others are maybe not that smart or not even smart at all, don't play with a fool, then cry if he slapped you with an old shoe and said jk

and as chosen, God should have gave you a chosen place, not this mess

anyway, if they gave it up, they will suffer even more, cos before they give it up, there were Palestinian people under occupation, giving it up, is like giving Israel a license to ethnically cleanse the rest.

 

I didn't understand what you wanted to say.
I don't believe in God.

 

So why are you in Israel? Why not go to a safe place, where you didn't have to fuck an entire nation over to settle there?

 

i understand the concept, but i have a different take on this situation.
a-in my suggestion you do not give up the right of return, you[palestanian people] fulfill their right of return and actually do return to your country. you also get compensated for the property that you have lost.
b- to follow up on your example. things like this always happen in US and i am sure other places.
when someone is wronged they sue the guilty party. they go to court, but generally settle out of court because the lawyers cost too much and the result is unknown. so the sides agree to a compromise. it is true that one side will lose some that rightfuly belongs to him, but a settlement is preferable for him rather than continuing and it is always because the other side is richer or more powerful or ...