Does my domain infringe copyright laws?

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by samhagin, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. #1
    I registered Windows7kb.com last year and tried to sell it on Sedo.com. They will not allow me to list it since they say it infringes on copyright laws. Do you think there is something wrong with the domain in terms of copyright laws? I see a lot of websites such as vistax64.com, windows7news.com etc that have no problem using these domains
     
    samhagin, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  2. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #2
    Technically I would disagree with their supposition since Microsoft doesn't have exclusivity on "windows"... the entire home improvement industry would belong to Microsoft in that case...

    That said: SEDO policies are SEDO policies - you are stuck with what the deem valid for them... you can go elsewhere and sell the domain and that would be acceptable to SEDO.
     
    fathom, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  3. samhagin

    samhagin Greenhorn

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    #3
    thanks for the reply
     
    samhagin, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  4. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

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    #4
    There is a good case for trademark infringement with this domain. While Microsoft doesn't own "windows" the fact that you added "7" to it would make a good argument for confusion. After all, the 7 was added because of Microsoft's famous mark.


    Microsoft has sued a lot of people for trademark infringement - and continues to file lawsuits. You don't have a right to do something just because someone else is doing something that infringes on a trademark.

    I would just drop the domain.
     
    mjewel, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  5. Raiko

    Raiko Member

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    #5
    I agree with mjewel. Windows 7 is definitely trademarked. You will probably get a trademark infringement notice sometime in the future asking you to give up the name. Personally I wouldn't build anything valuable around the domain as it could be taken away at any time.
     
    Raiko, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  6. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Not in the United States it isn't and not by Microsoft anywhere.
     
    fathom, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  7. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

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    #7
    "Windows" is certainly a registered trademark owned by Microsoft. Adding words (or a number) to a trademark in a domain does not get around infringement.

    The US also recognizes common law trademarks - no filing is required.

    It is certainly a trademark. One of the most common mistakes made by people with limited trademark knowledge is to assume you only need to check the USPTO for a registration. This is completely wrong.

    The reason there isn't a registered mark on "7" is probably because unlike "vista" and "xp", the number 7 alone would not be able to be trademarked for an operating system. They are still protected by their "windows" registered mark.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
    mjewel, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  8. Raiko

    Raiko Member

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    #8
    You are correct that Windows 7 is not trademarked (yet). However, Windows is trademarked. You can see Microsoft's trademarks HERE.

    First, you can be explicitly correct when you say that windows 7 is not trademarked but does that mean someone should put time and effort into building a site around the domain? Personally, I would not take the chance. Second, I wouldn't expect a UDRP panel to decide in my favor when Microsoft claims that the domain infringes on their rights. When beam.com can be taken from the domain holder then pretty much anything is fair game. But, yes, you are correct that the term Windows 7 is not trademarked. So....go ahead...build the site.
     
    Raiko, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  9. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Microsoft lost this battle in 2004 and paid $20 million to Lindows because of this quote by the U. S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit:

    “If the mark is found to be generic, ‘it cannot be the subject of trademark protection under any circumstances.’”

    Since Windows was found to be generic... the 7 is irrelevant unless an actual mark (Windows 7) in registered... which they have not... as such in today's language windows7 isn't infringing.

    ...because the domain was purchase before any registration occurred no infringement can occur.

    Admittedly, Microsoft can do as they wish and sue anyway... but:

     
    fathom, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  10. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

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    #10
    lol, Microsoft has a whole bunch of valid trademark registrations on "windows" serial 75702468, 75980682, 75879977, 75868853 to name a few.

    The OP registered this domain last year - long after Microsoft had established its trademarks.
     
    mjewel, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  11. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #11
    well here about a thousand windows domains for sale https://auctions.godaddy.com/trpHome.aspx?t=16&searchKeyword=_windows and windows.org is ripe for infringement.

    Godaddy profits off of most... and since... it was ruled that windows is generic and that means:

    “If the mark is found to be generic, ‘it cannot be the subject of trademark protection under any circumstances.’”

    That sure sounds like a good enough reason to lose any claim of infringement.


     
    fathom, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  12. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

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    #12
    You need to understand how trademarks work. Unless you are talking about a coined term, generic words have protection according to usage. Microsoft doesn't own the exclusive rights to "windows" - they own the rights according to their trademark classifications. Think of "Apple" - a more common word than windows, however, it's one of the strongest trademarks in the word for their particular usages.

    So if you owned windows.org and wanted to use it to sell "window coverings" there is nothing microsoft could do - it's not infringing upon their rights. If you used the same domain to sell operating software, you are going to have infringement problems.

    The OP registered a windows7 domain long after microsoft had announced their plans. Now if you want to go into court and spend tens of thousands of dollars trying to convince a judge that you didn't add "7" to windows in an attempt to associate yourself with Microsoft - then that's fine - and I think you'll lose anyway, but the minute you put any content related to Microsoft's business on the domain, it becomes infringement.

    I think the addition of "7" makes a good case for cybersquatting - but in any event, the domain is worthless because it can't be used for anything related to Microsoft's business or marks. And let's face it, no one wants that domain to sell curtains on it. This is why SEDO didn't want anything to do with the domain.
     
    mjewel, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  13. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #13
    ...I'm of the belief "selling" window7 isn't the same as running a windows7... and of course if a domain was setup for biotechnology and the gist of the website was 'looking into the human genome'... we wouldn't have a problem either.
     
    fathom, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  14. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

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    #14
    Unfortunately that's not the way trademark law works - which is exactly why SEDO won't list the domain. Microsoft purchased the trademark in the suit you referenced above (for $20 million) and continues to file lawsuits owners who use "windows" in domain names. A domain name alone can be enough to cause "confusion" - so in some cases it doesn't matter what the site is used for. I think a domain with "windows7" presents a good case for consumer confusion - but again, the OP isn't going to spend tens of thousands of dollars, most likely over a hundred thousand, to fight a case. Even if they won, they would still be out attorney fees. If Microsoft won, they could be awarded treble their legal costs (because their mark is registered). I think the chances of Microsoft being able to show a likelihood of confusion on the domain name alone is almost certain. Have you ever even been involved in an actual trademark infringement lawsuit or are you just guessing?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
    mjewel, Aug 10, 2009 IP
  15. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #15
    You can shit a windows looking object into your shorts and Microsoft could sue because they could see how this infringes on their marks if you start showing your windows version shit to a public... and they could even make a viable case. That's their right... to do and try... I never once said they can't.

    The law of averages says they won't for a $10 domain... they may try on a website with similar products/services and they probably will on say a domain selling microsoft products that isn't a recognized agent.

    If you buy a domain and never use it... that isn't infringement in itself and it doesn't dilute any marks nor causes confusion since you can't be confused by what you can't see.

    I'm positive Microsoft knows of godaddy auctions and these https://auctions.godaddy.com/trpHome.aspx?t=16&searchKeyword=_windows7 and I'm positive they know that godaddy earns revenue off of every domain that includes their marks... and that in itself is cause for action.

    So while I'll agree with your position... "yes they could make a case"... and "no" they probably won't until there is a viable threat.
     
    fathom, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  16. mjewel

    mjewel Prominent Member

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    #16
    "The law of averages says they won't for a $10 domain... they may try on a website with similar products/services and they probably will on say a domain selling microsoft products that isn't a recognized agent."

    Microsoft has taken action against thousands of domains infringing upon their trademarks. Last count had them owning over 21,000 domains it had recovered and which now redirect to Microsoft. Being an authorized agent doesn't give you rights to own an infringing domain.

    "If you buy a domain and never use it... that isn't infringement in itself and it doesn't dilute any marks nor causes confusion since you can't be confused by what you can't see."

    That's completely wrong. You obviously don't have much knowledge with trademarks and domains. Read up on cybersquatting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersquatting . Microsoft just filed a new round of cases againt hundreds of domains and is seeking $100,000 per domain.

    I'm positive Microsoft knows of godaddy auctions and these https://auctions.godaddy.com/trpHome.aspx?t=16&searchKeyword=_windows7 and I'm positive they know that godaddy earns revenue off of every domain that includes their marks... and that in itself is cause for action.

    Domain registrars like godaddy have protection - it's not their job to research domains for infringement. Read their TOS. It's up to the individual to check for infringement.

    Will Microsoft sue every single person who registers an infringing name? Not likely - but that isn't the question. It's up to an individual if the want to risk being sued. Even if it was only a 1% chance, is a $8 dollar domain worth the risk?
     
    mjewel, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  17. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #17
    I didn't know that OP was attempting to sell the domain to Microsoft? ...where can we learn about this transaction?
     
    fathom, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  18. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #18
    So you say "in good faith" they are allowed to profit on "others bad faith".

    WOW!
     
    fathom, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  19. fathom

    fathom Well-Known Member

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    #19
    ...and you've illustrated my point perfectly.
     
    fathom, Aug 11, 2009 IP
  20. anthonywebs

    anthonywebs Banned

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    #20
    Just put a picture of 7 windows and you probably will be able to sell it with no problems
     
    anthonywebs, Aug 11, 2009 IP