its funny when the war started there was supposed to be like 20-30k insurgents, and then killed like 50k but there still supposed to 20-30k insurgents left
Still am not sure how you think what the end consumer pays today at the pump ties into the big picture. Also the fact that people keep blowing up the pipelines and kidnapping the oil people might slow down oil production. We might be paying less if they would stop doing that and oil production was pumped up in Iraq, whihc is probably how old GW and crew envisioned it before they invaded.
Okay, I'm too lazy to read 2 pages of posts, so I'll just dive in right here: Democracy isn't a bad thing. What's wrong with spreading freedom while removing terrorists?
I try to look at it logically ferret. Some suggest it's "about oil." OK, where's the oil? If it was about oil two years ago, why are prices so high today? What company(s) are importing free Iraqi oil? I think they are reasonable questions when someone suggests it's about oil. I also think someone who subscribes to that false notion would have reasonable answers to them. They are fair questions, aren't they?
compu-xp If you bothered to actually read the news instead of maybe just hearing what your daddy tells you, you might actually have something interesting to post.
I think it's the fairest observation I've ever seen you make. And I don't mean that in an insulting manner. You stated something that I would not have otherwise taken for face value, then backed it up with solid resources. Even further, the controversy over it comes from a conservative think tank. I'd have to look into it more, but I'm not sure it's warranted. It was an excellent argument and one I'm not sure I could counter. Having said that, if this is the case, it makes a compelling argument that it is indeed time to come home. It's one thing to leave Iraq in the hands of terrorists, but if the majority of them are Iraqis, then I personally don't see a compelling argument to be there any longer. What's really disturbing is, this came out late last year. That's initial thoughts on it. There might be other evidence out there to suggest otherwise. But I personally don't want our troops there any longer than necessary and if such a low percentage of those they are fighting along with the Iraqi Army are foriegn terrorists, then it's time to head home.
I never said anyone was importing free oil, Well one might ask where are the WMDs, where is wonderful democracy that will spread peace thru the middle east. Obviously the War has gone totally differently then our leaders thought it would. Because the oil is not flowing now is not proof that getting the oil flowing wasn't one of the incentives in the original plan to go to war.
I'll work with "any" oil. Free or not. I can't imagine anyone *honestly* asking about WMDs anymore. We covered that, to be sure. WMD were found. Of course, it always turns to some preconceived notion of nice and neat stockpiles, or that they had to be certain WMD, but those are invalid arguments. WMD were found. Not much point in using that anymore. Still, it doesn't address what I think are reasonable questions:
I just had dinner with a friend, a US citizen who left Lebanon 19 years ago. A Lebanese Christian who has no family or friends left in Lebanon. He is hurting. He said something like... Democracy in the Middle East doesn't work...terrorists in Gaza, in Lebanon, and Iraq. He joked, that if you had an election in Saudi Arabia O Sama would be the new king. We both thought that democracy in the middle east would be a good idea when this whole war in Iraq started. Many things aren't going right from the perspective of the non-muslim non middle easterner. Its a tough deal. The non-middle east needs to think this thing out. Right now the middle east is a cauldron of hatred for non-muslims, a spawning ground for terrorists, terrorist training and terrorist idealogythat has attacked throughout Europe, India, the US and around the world. This same group and its various levels of support in nations in the Middle East control vast amounts of critical oil and largely support religious/governmental thinking that is anti-west, anti-islam, anti individual rights, anti-modernism, and anti progress. And on top of that they are brutally dangerous while having a disregard for their own lives. It seems that relatively new democracy in the middle east isn't working anywhere, let alone Iraq. I'd fall back, think this thing through...and be incredibly ready to blow much of them to smithereens. I'd also be working faster than ever to free as much of the industrialized world as possible from mid east oil. Dave
Maybe if you had any common sense your posts would be more interesting to read. Your post really isn't contributing anything intelligent to this debate Then again, none of them really do. But you don't know any better. Sorry! Blame it on the twisted liberal beliefs. You just have no way of arguing my simple statement. Oh, and by the way, it's "compuXP", not "compu-xp" - please get it right next time
How many billions of dollars have the oil companies profited in the last 2 years... and you're asking this question? They're simply ripping us off.
You mean you want the terrorists to win! You freedom-hating terrorist supporter! How dare you hate your country like that! How does it feel buddy? Perhaps an apology is warranted? So we go blow up all their shit, destroy the government, and leave them in chaos and civil war? Sounds like a great plan! Spreading democracy across the world! What a success
Umm... actually (dumb ass) ferret has presented more to this debate than anyone else in the thread. Perhaps if you read things before jumping in and making an ignorant ass of yourself, you would have realised that. Don't you have some homework to do or something?
What would you have us do? Let them blow up our buildings, buses, subway stations and sit back and wait for them to calm down? Or should just give them all they want until there is nothing left in the world but muslim territory? You can only point out whats everyone is doing wrong, what's your solution?
ok This is what I think the solution is I know people love when the US blows stuff up and does military stuff , and they think negotiations etc are weak but if haven’t already noticed military action doesn't tend to get terrorists because a) Unless you are going to commit genocide and kill everyone who might be terrorists, your not going to be able to kill all the terrorists b) When you kill civilians you create more terrorists and terrorist sympathizers When I was little I learn about Israel, and I thought they were so cool and tough because they take such a hard-line, and bomb the shit out the Palestinians every time they attack them. Well that when I was like 13 now that I am older and have watched those people fight for another 18 years, you know what I realized is, that it doesn't work. Being the tough guy hasn't worked and it doesn't appear that its going to work. Being tough on a dictator or a country that has a government works, but not a religions sect, cult or whatever. Israel bombs the hezzies and now they are more popular then ever. We need to convince Muslims to police themselves, we need beg, bribe. Threaten whoever we have to get cut of the arms and money going to extremist groups. We have to work with Syria and Iran, it sucks but they are the only ones who can slow down the insurgency and the hezzies. You know Syria was on our side during the first Iraq war? Iraq never did any of those things; you might actually want to read a bit about what is going on. Iraq was one of the more secular countries in the Middle East. Woman worked, could go out without burkas etc. Saddam hated the islamists , they were a threat to his power. If you don't even know that, you really might want to read some more about what is going on in the world
I know about the middle-east more than you think So yeah, lets just install ruthless dictators all over the muslim countries in the middle-east, that’s surely the solution. Ok, so, any volunteers here to become the next sole ruthless megalomaniac ruler of Iraq?
So you are saying you still don't know where the oil is? Not in the least bit. That's been your position for the last year. Even going as far as to blame "your" country for zarqawi's actions. I cannot apologize for your support of terrorists in Iraq. That's something you'll have to reach deep down inside yourself to come up with. I do you will be able to though. An eloquent way of saying "We take out three of the biggest WMD the world has ever known, saddam, uday and qusay" who collectively have killed over a million people and dumped many in mass graves, acid baths, beheadings and crimes most cannot fathom." I understand your disappointment they are still not in power. You make it clear often that you prefer these types of people in control over others. Keep working it, yo! You've managed to take "A compelling argument" and run with it better than I had imagined I knew throwing a little "bait" would work a few up into a frenzy, but you exceeded my expectations
Sold and continuing to flow - for billions of dollars in profits. I rewrote that for accuracy. Stop supporting the terrorists gtech. why do you always want America to lose? Cut and run now and let them win? What a drity liberal! No, you just flip flopped. All this time you were hell-bent on supporting staying in Iraq so the "Terrorists" can't win. Now that you know the terrorists are home grown (from our very actions) you're ready to cut and run. Leaving now would be handing over the country to the terrorists and sealing the fate of millions more people to death. Like I said... spreading democracy (or was that... anarchy and chaos) all over the planet. One country at a time