Of course there is a chance. There is also a chance that this universe exists only in my head, a chance that you are experiencing virtual reality and i am just a creation of software and a chance that elvis and jackson are still alive and have gotten married, i would be a cretin to claim to be certain of any of these though based on the possibility that it may be the case. You, on the other hand, seem to be certain that not only did this require a magic man in the sky but that you have picked the right one who wrote the right book. As fantasy based as your deist assumptions are, your theist assumptions trump them all. Also? lol did you just admit that your beliefs are "fairy tale magic"? well admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. Sometimes nothing demonstrates how little someone understands evolution better than questions like this. a copy of an old book: $10 Picture of a dead man on a stick: $7 Creationists questions: priceless
Stox I think we can now concede that you really have lost it. Answering half questions with half answers. As you can see people of faith and others who believe in science can expose your beliefs for what they are. Basically they are set in a combination of hatred of theists, a little bit of science and alot of magical beliefs. Judge not for you yourself will be judged by teh standards that you set for others. You basically have become the man of faith here, and i bet many atheists are angry that you have set their position back 1000 years. My honest conversations with offline atheist friends prepared me for the debate on this subject. They basically said what rockyg has been truthfully saying all along. That your position is very shaky and when you judge people of faith, its crazy to do it when your beliefs themselves stand on a string of fairy tales themselves. We need more subjects like this to show that not all atheists are close minded, and there are many many atheists that concede that there is a chance that god does exist. The seed has been planted and thanks to you its grown into a beautiful tree of exposation.
In my opinion, the meaning of being an atheist is to deny the existence of G-d. If an atheist wants to concede that there is a chance that G-d exists, they cease to be an atheist, and become an agnostic.
Atheists are people without a belief in god, they include agnostics. pong, don't quote me if you are going to chicken out of addressing anything i have written.
I have been trying to address it stox, its just you keep switching the subject around when your losing the debate. The indirect eveidence of a supreme force is much greater then your magical notion that the universe was created by a natural process in which you cant even admit taht the natural process itself had to be created for it to be there. Stox you have great faith, but you should really start to use common sense in your posts, and then back them up with something concrete. So far it seems liek it is you that believes that everything there is has been created by some magical process that has always been here. I guess you are used to believing in things without backing them up with documentation or facts like your hero Christopher Hitchens who loves writing make believe fairy tale books without no facts of where he gets his info from or documentative proof. This must be the new neo-atheistic movement which is based on spreading innuendos and biases without proof. If someone lives in a glass house and throws stones the house will be cracked and exposed for everyone to see it for what it is. Stox you have a right to believe in magic if you want, like I said , I respect all peoples faiths including yours. At least we have faith in common. Theoretical physicists seem to be very spiritual on the most part because they can admit what you will never admit to stox and that the footprints of god are all out there. The beauty and symmetry and order of the universe. It didnt have to be that way, and everything has a law or formula. These laws didnt pop out of thin air like you believe. They had to have been created in some very complex way. Rebecca interesting post, its called planting the seed and thats another reason why stox wont even admit to a possibility in a serious way
Just answer one question truthfully (if that is all possible for a Christian). Are you telling us that this "supreme force" is the same as God of Christianity that BS stories in bible talk about or something totally different?
Gworld , ok let me go through this slowly for you. Im saying that if there is the possibility of god existing there is also the possibility that yes it can be teh same god, because if he can do all of these wonderous things he can also choose to appear to anyone that he chooses to in any form he wants. Cause if hes all powerful then he can do basically anything he wants, because it was he who created all of these laws . He is the master, the creator he is everything. Im not trying to say that he is definately this, im trying to say now we open to the fact that it could be. Most educated atheists admit to this possibility allready, Notice I said teh possibility. Stox wont and you wont either because your form of atheism is based on faith with no scientific facts, some biases and bad experiences with people of faith from the past which they then attached to all people of faith. It shows in the way they post their hatred on their sites. Notice I dont have a site that does this at all. I dont need to spread hatred towards anyones beliefs. God bless
What if, just for the sake of arguement, Satan in the Old Testament is the good guy, while God is the raging dick who accepts no less than the death of anyone that makes him angry? And what if, for the sake of a similar thread, you actually read what I posted there.
But in the same way isn't this illogical that "some thing" that is so powerful and creator of all thing, in the same time is so stupid that doesn't know how long has it been since the world was created or with all his powers be concerned about if his creatures have sex or just je*k off before marriage? Therefore, any smart and logical person can understand that even if your imaginary friend existed, it can not be the same God as Christianity and bible. The problem is not about some theoretical force in universe with no effect on human life, the problem is about the God of different religions that is used to control the mind and life of people.
Gworld its so awesome that you have started believing in god. It was only a matter of time before logic showed that the world couldnt just pop up out of no where. God bless you gworld, I feel like I gained another brother
On the basis of scientific fact, they are both equal. Not if you're dealing in facts. Can you provide any facts for either side? And the acceptance of a theory without fact (God does not exist) is complete bollocks. Only an gullible eejit would would accept an unproven assertion as fact... Which was my original point, before you started jumping to conclusions. I clearly said both religious and atheism were without any facts to back up either. They are both simply beliefs. Thats merely you're opinion. I disagree. As do the majority of people worldwide. And I have no problem with that because you correctly point out it is a belief. Again, my original point was atheism in the form of 'God does not exist' is merely a belief - not fact. After hundreds of words, you finally seem to have grasped the original point I made. Your instincts count for nothing on a scientific basis. No more than my beliefs count for anything on a scientific basis. Atheism, from a scientific standpoint is exactly that - nothing. There's no merit in it at all. Religion receives a similar treatment. And again, we are back at my original point - Atheism and Relgion are simply beliefs. If you want to argue on numbers, then the vast majority of people (the overwhelming majority) think the scientists are plaintly wrong. In fact, atheism worldwide, constitutes about 2% of the population IMO. Ah yes, the superiority argument. I was wondering how long it would take you to put yourself above everybody else based on your much vaunted phD. Scientists only know more about the evolution of the universe - not its creation. Unfortunately, scientists are on a level playing field as regards the origins of space/time and what existed prior to that. They have a big fat 0% knowledge rate in that regard. Despite your belief in your piece of paper titled 'phD' , you are exactly 100% equal to Joe Soap in that regard. If the vast majority of mechanics( say 5m mechanics) cannot tell you where a car came from, only how it gets from A to B, and the vast majority of people (say 60 billion) tell you a car came from a factory based on their logical thinking, which would you believe? On a scientific basis, neither are correct. Their all only expressing an opinion that is of equal validity. I.e. both your oft referred to superior scientists and Joe Soap currently have an equal chance of being right.
Pong trying to walk through simple concept with you is comperable to explaining special relativity to a goldfish, though at least the goldfish is incapable of decietful, obfuscation and intellectual dishonesty. You also, with great comedy effect, do a great job at rideculing your own possition by comparing mine to it in your failed attempts at criticising it. Essentially you are saying "the scientific approach is as cretinous and illogical as what I believe", the fact that you can't even see what this says about your argument is probably indicitive of the same problem which prevents you grasping simple points, that being either your limited mental capacity or your intelecctual dishonesty. What you are essentially saying is that any answer is likely in the absense of any provable answer, which is patently absurd and will inevatibly result in you having to admit that even if we did suffer brain damage and claim a magic man done it it would have to be as likely that it was Vishnu, Thor or the juju up the mountain as it would be your god. Typically you have fallen in to the trap of arguing for deism, which isn't what you actually believe, but is somewhere for you to hide your cowardice and inability to defend what you actually believe. Only a christian is capable of invoking a strawman version of their own argument. Usually the dishonest misreprisent their opponents position to make them easier to attack, you have resorted to misreprisenting your own possition to make it easier to defend.
Rockyg look what I have got you claiming. You know you have been beaten when you have been forced to Publicly state that you see the claim that fairies exist and the claim that they don't exist as the same thing, something which you, and anyone else with a functioning brain, sees as completely different in reality. Now watch me really embarrass you. Do you think the claim that Santa exists is the same that he doesn't?
If from my post you understand that I agree with you about the existance of God then 40 years of not having sex must have really effected your ability to think. Now that you accepted that Christian God doesn't exist and your bible and religion is just BS, go out, get laid and then read my post again and so may be, you will be able to really understand it.
The more I interact with pong the more I am conviced that he had very little say in his "decision" to stay a virgin into his 40s. Can you imagine living with someone who thinks a magic man delivered the post on the grounds that nobody actually see a postman, which is essentially his logic when concluding that a magic man made the universe.
I believe in God OP does not believe in God. Then thats ok. I guess most people will realize the truth when they are dead. Have you ever thought about dead? Sound scary isn't it? I am wondering what does the OP thinks about when he or she is dead. Maybe buried underground and jusr forgotten?
It's appauling you would actually claim to need proof that the processes in your body eventually halt after death. With no energy or resources to feed the process of living, your heart, brain, and other receptors of senses and pain halts. That is fact, talk to any doctor even even a half-witted witch doctor, or consult any related scientific paper conducted in the history of mankind and the factual conclusion is that these processes stop. We do not magically continue feeling and percieving, walking, and doing tasks after death. Our processes halt. This sounds worse than a theist: you're an animist, do you believe in necromancy, or practice that in your bedroom at night after conducting satanic rituals? Surely you're aware of what happens to the body after death. Also, you continue to try and make a biased-backslash against my atheism when I haven't even claimed to be an atheist. And consequently after a single experience, you make a public announcement that "all atheists can do is insult and hope nobody notices the lack of facts for their own stance." That's called prejudice. The Christian bible, and many fundamentalist Christians I have met have directly claimed to believe they know that god exists, that the Earth was created rather recently in a matter of 6 days, and all of my other assertions above. It is not juvenile to require evidence for your claims. We cannot prove a negative, it is up to you to provice the evidence. There are hundreds of religions in the world, which is the one to believe? The default stance is atheism, which is how all children are born, it is your duty to provide the evidence that gives your religion substance over another. You claim I have no factual evidence when in fact I do, and maintain no evidence for your own religion. Why are you asking for unneccessary evidence when you lack your own? Atheists don't "believe" everything stops. However, most likely, they know it will. Roll a ball and I don't give a flying piece of crap what you say: it'll stop eventually. This is a result of your misunderstanding of physics and complete lack of an education that is recognizable in your words.