I think we have pretty much slam dunked everything appearing one day on its own (makes no sense at all). Now that the atheists understand that this is impossible theyw ill move to the next question which : how did god come into existence and the only way to know this answer is to ask the allmighty himself. This debate is a done deal We and the atheists can agree to pne thing 100% sure, what started this all could not just come into existence. All I need is a yes or no from anyone that isnt a theist. Yes and there is no more need for an explanation. No and give me valid, common sense reasons why you dont believe this. Stick to one thing at a time instead of jumping around. Would any atheist care to answer this or will they jump to anotehr question which is what they have been doing for weeks now)
I'm an atheists, I respects anyone choice to religion. I personal do not believe that some "god" has the force to create everything. I do not believe in "Heaven" and "Hell". You die and your body gets composed into the earth to help support vegetational growth, or it's digested to help support other types of life. Humans are intelligent and we learn by our mistakes, and by past generations. We are still trying to find cures for cancer, we are still trying to get to mar.. Things are complicated the bible is more of a story, helps for a healthy living. Its teaches you to respect your fellow man, not to kill. It threaten you with a entirety in "hell", Witch back in the day would not be hard to believe with out technology we have to day. "Do not brake any "laws" in the bible, and you while be rewarded in the after life". Its the perfect thing to keep a society functioning without chaos. Now one problem I have is how people that believe in religion always use this line.. How did nothing start form nothing? Would it be fair to say we do not have the technology to explore theses answers yet? We are still exploring mars, but you guys expect us to have the answer to the universe written in a report. Its still too complicated to explore and to gather this type of information. We evolve form our mistakes, we learn form them. In the last 100 Years we have learned a lot thanks to the technological advances, we are currently not at the stage of exploring our universe let alone have a great understand how our solar system works, and other planets. Most research and exploration was dedicated to understand how our own planet functions. We learn form past generations, our jobs our to continue the research to have a better understanding then the day before. Anyway, thanks for reading and remember. "You have to learn how to walk before you can run"
You can't say that we didn't just say that we didn't come from no where like that, and then tell us we can't say where did God come from. Thats hypocrisy. And considering I don't believe you to be a hypocrite I would prefer you keep it that way and retract that statement.
Hostlonestar, its ok to ask but why do atheists run from a direct answer and when they cant answer directly they respond with an answer. OK lonestar let me ask you do you truely believe that it is common sense to believe that what started this all was just always there? How can something always be there. As a rational, thinking atheist do you believe that something can just be there? YES OR NO First kindly answer that this question that every atheist has ran away from and then we can proceed to debate the other question you have for me. Hows that? Maybe one atheist here can show me that they can answer in a non biased common sense way. The method that 99% of the judgmental atheists claim they reason ANd if you are saying that I am being rediculous and leaving common sense out the door to believe that god couldnt just exist , I could say that same for some of the other atheists who believe that what started this all could have existed from the beginning. Isnt that kind of hypocritical also?
I always felt there is some sort of compromise between the atheist and dogmatic god worshiper. Perhaps some sort of universal system of evolution. It can be said that WE are the conscious universe since we are its evolutionary creation.
It's not that hard to believe something can just be there. The alternative is believing a god magically created us, in which case you need to believe god was always just there. And if you believe god can always just be there, how's it hard for you to believe the universe was always here in the very same way? The difference between your argument and ours is, you add an unnecessary component to it that is entirely unproven.
Pong, i have given you a direct answer to your question many times. My answer is, and always has been, we currently don't fully understand the process that formed the universe. Just because you have neither the integrity or intellectual honesty to acknowledge that an answer was given doesn't negate the fact that you have always received an answer, i'm just sorry that you find the answer so inconvenient. Well i don't believe that something could "just be there", interestingly you do though. Isn't it funny how your god negates the very law that required his invention? I think it shows the logical paths the religious use when trying to think up rationalisations to justify their beliefs. I think, as i have always stated, that there is a natural process that lead to the formation of the universe and just because we don't currently fully understand that process doesn't give credibility to your idea that a magic man done it. They can't both be true, they are contradictory statements. Look, evidence for something has to consist of more than you saying "it's in the bible" that's no more evidence for anything than saying "it's in the lord of the rings would be". I have read the bible, through choice, and it's the most poorly written work of fiction i have ever read. It seems only idiots can figure it out, i think being an idiot is almost compulsory, the rest of us look at the evidence and see that organisms, technology, life expectancy and living conditions have, over time, steadily improved. I have considered your opinion and have concluded that it's just that, an opinion. And a poorly thought through one at that, if thought through at all. Evolution, Darwinian evolution, more accurately says that all organisms evolved from more simpler organisms through natural selection. Darwin speculated that all species, flora and fauna, would have originated from a single organism but had no way of proving it. Since Darwin's death we have discovered genetics and we now can prove what he suspected. If evolution is wrong why does every test capable of spectacularly falsifying it beyond all doubt always end up fully supporting it? everything from taxonomy, fossils, ERV dna, fused chromosomes in chimpanzees, vestigial limbs and organs, embryology. And more to the point, why have none of the creationists ever discovered any evidence that contradict evolution? They seem to spend their time poorly attempting to pick holes in evolution using the same tired old arguments which have been kicked to death a thousand times instead of arguing for their own case and looking for evidence that actually refutes evolution. Now i know, as i'm sure everyone else does by now, that you don't disagree with evolution because you have studied it, understood it, thought about it and come to the conclusion that the evidence for it just doesn't hold water. You disbelieve it, like all creationists do, because of religious reasons, which kind of makes anything you have to say on the subject irrelevant. You disbelieve it purely because it's not the same as what your little creation myth says happened. Which, to me, is the equivalent of believing thunder is created by Thor's hammer or that a bad harvest is caused by the great juju in the volcano. It's an infantile belief supported by nothing and contradicted by everything.
Allow me to destroy the theist argument.. If there is a god, then who created him, and when? If you believe god has always existed then read here.
"what kind of brain damage does it take" TO THINK THAT THERE IS NO GOD? Look in the nature, look in the stuff and see how it's made, how tiniest thing is engineered... See how humans are trying to replicate the nature - it's engineering principles, because humans, with their minds can see how effective are those engineering principles... they can see how effective is this system that runs this earth smoothly... - and apply that to their own creations. That's what we do. When someone creates something "clever", everyone thinks that his mind is genius. And where did his "clever" idea came from? NATURE! It was already there, someone had already thought of it... he just took it, and everyone thinks that he is genius, not the one who thought of it in the first place. Do you see where I am going with this? Open your eyes.
Another theist who thinks because they don't understand the principles which formed the things around them that a magic man must have done it. Do you not see how facile and ridiculous that argument is?
Thats a good point. Who created God? I didn't read the whole thread so maybe some of the things i say had been said already. If there is a "heaven" in the sky, then where is the hell? Beneath my feet? If god created everything, why did he create the evil? Okay let's say the evil wasn't evil in the beginning but ran out of control. Did God have not enough power to control it? So he's not so god like after all... If he is the creater and he can create a world and living beings why can't he control the eveil and bad things like war? I have a example. I buy a fish tank and i fill it with water, sand and add some plants and put a light on the top. Somehow what god did according to the bibel. Then i put some fish inside my tank. They will probably think now i am their god. Once fish become evil and killed another on i will take the evil one out. Coz i am there creater and what i created i also can change, right? So why can't god stop wars and fighting? I am sure if the humans never belived in a god, the whole world would be much better now...no holy wars...no hate of other races. And also our techology would be much better, coz people could spent more time on inventing and researching instead of praying and fighting people of other religios.
dude, nobody is talking here about magic man. I am just saying that, everything is engineered, not accidentally formed. You can't just take materials and randomly throw them on the ground and hope that you will make a building.. You have to do a little thinking first. In the same way, I don't think that human being DNA can randomly form...
What an absurd mixture of statements. You're arguing that god exists but you're also implying free-will doesn't exist. I thought god gave us free will, no?
Genes that tend to hang around long enough to procreate is what concerns evolutionary theory. That's it, in a nutshell. The problem, from what I can tell, with many people's disbelief in evolution is because they are attempting to take a photo, a still, of a process that is constant, moving, and incredibly long-term (though it does take place in punctuational bursts, most likely). In other words, to take your question, imagine a process that takes an incredibly long period of time. Imagine that in that process, those traits make incremental changes that tend to help -or hurt - their likelihood that they will become more expressed in nature; in the case of genes, a genetic mix that adapts to whatever natural environment the individual exists in, such that he, she, it lives long enough to pass those (better suited) genes on. No "materials thrown on the ground," as a photo, a grab of time, in stasis. Or, to take your image, imagine those materials are a mix of neutral and charged substances. Over time, the materials with a polar charge tend to aggregate with other substances with polar charge, while the neutral substances tend to be swept away. Over time, the polar substances will tend to dominate in the "population" we're taking a photo of. Did it "just happen?" No - nature took its course. Must we conclude, taking this photo, that agency by some overweening "intelligence" necessarily took place? Not in my opinion.
Because if there was a God, he wouldn't be bound by physical laws such as "Matter cannot be created nor destroyed". The universe, however, is bound by such laws. On that note, infinity is incomprehensible to the human mind. There is no way to prove or disprove that there is a God.
The only way is to wait till the technology is so far thats we can talk with dead people. Then make the priests and jesus and who ever make this god story up to admit that it was all a lie to get power and influence. Dont take it too serious....it's just a thought
Well we know how buildings are built. if buildings formed via procreation resulting in offspring with variation existing in an environment which means those with beneficial variations live longer and produce more offspring then it's perfectly viable for them to form on their own, not only form, but also improve - if we take "improve" to mean be better suited to the environment. You seem to be under the incorrect impression that evolution says random genes come together to form complex things, such as the eye, but in reality it's a slow process with small changes culminating over vast amounts of time into what could be percieved as something "engineered".
Doesn't your brain turn off when you die? @GMrocks, the TV thing applies because the original argument was that when we die, we are turned off like a light bulb. But that's like saying, when you turn off a TV, the TV stations stop transmitting. Both conclusions are based upon a lack of knowledge of what happens "after". Both conclusions are suppositions based upon a lack of data or understanding. Although there are some excellent scientific theories, such as the Entrpoy theory, that project that out of scientific necessity that there must be a God (the term used is Prime Mover), none have been widely accepted. However, when self-professed athiests throw religious slurs, then the discussion is less about deity and more about this forum becoming a safe haven for hate-speech and ugly bigots.