Pardon me not being able to quote correctly but isn't it said that 'He is, was and always will be'? Besides, if he can rule for eternity but isn't timeless then that means he started somewhere so where was that and how?
I agree with Lorien. You are not making much sense. According to the Bible, there is no hell. God would not torture people. The Bible says he is the God of love (2 Cor 13:11). No. Forcing others would be me banging on your door and pushing a gun in your face and saying "believe or die". I don't recall our people doing anything like this. I use the Digital Spy so I can see their posts anyway. I will give all a chance to calm down. If they do, then off ignore. I can forgive. But, can they forgive me? I don't expect them to. Ummmm....I follow the instructions implicitly by Christ Jesus. That would evidently categorise me as a Christian would it not? The watchtower is only a small part of our study. There is so much more. As far as hell goes you need to read this: What Are Sheol and Hades? IN ITS original languages, the Bible uses the Hebrew word she’ohl′ and its Greek equivalent hai′des more than 70 times. Both words are related to death. Some Bible translations render them as “grave,†“hell,†or “pit.†However, in most languages there are no words that convey the precise sense of these Hebrew and Greek words. The New World Translation therefore uses the words “Sheol†and “Hades.†What do these words really mean? Let us note how they are used in different Bible passages. Ecclesiastes 9:10 states: “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.†Does this mean that Sheol refers to a specific, or individual, grave site where we may have buried a loved one? No. When the Bible refers to a specific burial place, or grave, it uses other Hebrew and Greek words, not she’ohl′ and hai′des. (Genesis 23:7-9; Matthew 28:1) Also, the Bible does not use the word “Sheol†for a grave where several individuals are buried together, such as a family grave or a mass grave.—Genesis 49:30, 31. To what kind of place, then, does “Sheol†refer? God’s Word indicates that “Sheol,†or “Hades,†refers to something much more than even a large mass grave. For instance, Isaiah 5:14 notes that Sheol is “spacious and has opened its mouth wide beyond bounds.†Although Sheol has already swallowed, so to speak, countless dead people, it always seems to hunger for more. (Proverbs 30:15, 16) Unlike any literal burial site, which can hold only a limited number of the dead, “Sheol and the place of destruction themselves do not get satisfied.†(Proverbs 27:20) Sheol never becomes full. It has no limits. Sheol, or Hades, is thus not a literal place in a specific location. Rather, it is the common grave of dead mankind, the figurative location where most of mankind sleep in death. The Bible teaching of the resurrection helps us to gain further insight into the meaning of “Sheol†and “Hades.†God’s Word associates Sheol and Hades with the sort of death from which there will be a resurrection. (Job 14:13; Acts 2:31; Revelation 20:13) God’s Word also shows that those in Sheol, or Hades, include not only those who have served Jehovah but also many who have not served him. (Genesis 37:35; Psalm 55:15) Therefore, the Bible teaches that there will be “a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.â€â€”Acts 24:15. [Footnote] In contrast, the dead who will not be raised are described as being, not in Sheol, or Hades, but “in Gehenna.†(Matthew 5:30; 10:28; 23:33) Like Sheol and Hades, Gehenna is not a literal place.
Some of Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs: - Heaven is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses - Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses - Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians - There is no life after death (except for the 144,000) - You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.) - You cannot celebrate your birthday - Judgment day is 1000 years long - Only Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God - God will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses at armageddon That sure doesn't sound like a cult to me! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/reasons.html I guess we're all doomed anyway, only 144,000 can get into heaven, sorry debunked!
Where do you get this stuff? Out of a web site? Oh! Must be true then! Some of your quotes are true. Others are just plain gossip. I will comment on each item: - Heaven is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses Incorrect: Heaven is only for Jehovah God, Jesus Christ and his 144,000 co-rulers (Rev 7:4), and the myriads of angels. - Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses See above - Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians Correct. Because we follow Christ's instructions. All of them! - There is no life after death (except for the 144,000) Incorrect: Also those who have dies. They will be resurrected by Christ Jesus. (John 5:25-30) - You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.) Correct: We do not celebrate pagan festivals of any kind. It's like worshipping other gods and that goes directly against the first commandment (Ex 20:3) - You cannot celebrate your birthday Correct: there are two birthday celebrations mentioned in the Bible at (Gen 40:2, 3, 20, 22) and (Matt 14:6-11). Hence the very reason we don't celebrate them just as there is no mention of Jesus celebrating his birthday. - Judgment day is 1000 years long Correct: Comes after the great tribulation and Armageddon - Only Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God Incorrect: All prayers are heard by God when they come from the heart. However, Jesus gave instructions for how to pray correctly (Matt 6:7-14) - God will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses at armageddon Incorrect: The Bible does not say this so we can not speculate. However, we have guidelines and instructions from Jehovah God and also Jesus for how to conduct ourselves and also how to worship the only true God.
A cult? Go look at what any dictionary says what a cult is. We do not close off to everyone else. We welcome people in.
The Bible doesn't mention Jesus taking a piss either. PS. Does that mean you don't celebrate Easter, Valentines, Christmas etc? PPS. Getting me out of bed to preach is forcing me to do something. You are forcing me to answer to my courteous nature by opening the door and then forcing me to be rude by telling you to fuck off.
Firstly, yes, we do not celebrate Easter or Christmas. For Valentines day, read this: A New Name for an Old Orgy BY AWAKE! CORRESPONDENT IN JAPAN IN BRITAIN, 15-year-old Ann excitedly rips open an envelope that has just arrived in the mail. She pulls out a card. Its front is decorated with dainty hearts. The inside contains a romantic message, and it is signed: “From an admirer.†With dreamy eyes and a rosy blush, Ann lets out a sigh. She is clearly flattered, and yet puzzled. ‘Who sent me this valentine?’ Ann wonders. In Japan, Yuko has begun working in an office. Valentine Day draws near. Yuko’s calculations show that it will cost 20,000 yen ($200, U.S.) to buy small boxes of chocolates for each of her male coworkers. Yuko spends lunchtime with her girlfriends buying what they call giri-choco—obligatory chocolates. February 14th is the day on which anxious romantics around the world await to be told, in one way or another, “I love you.†Neither Ann nor Yuko has any idea how this holiday got started. They might be surprised to find out. The roots of what is now called Valentine Day can be traced back to ancient Greece, where worship of Pan flourished. This mythical half-man-half-goat fertility god had a wild, unpredictable nature that struck terror into humans. Aptly the English word “panic†literally means “of Pan.†Pan was supposed to watch the flocks while playing his pipes. However, he was easily distracted. Pan had many love affairs with nymphs and goddesses. One sculpture shows Pan making advances to Aphrodite, the goddess of love. Eros, the god of love, hovers above them flapping his wings—much like the Cupid found on valentines today. In Rome many worshiped a similar god named Faunus. He too was depicted as half man and half goat. Worship of Faunus was prominent at Lupercalia, an orgiastic festival that was observed each year on February 15. During this festival scantily clad men raced around a hill, brandishing goatskin whips. Women who wanted to bear children stood near the path of these runners. Striking a woman with a whip, the Romans believed, would ensure her fertility. According to The Catholic Encyclopedia, Lupercalia was abolished by Pope Gelasius I in the late fifth century C.E. Yet, today we find a modern-day counterpart prospering under the title: “Saint Valentine’s Day.†There are various theories regarding the origin of this “Christianized†name. According to one story, the third-century Roman emperor Claudius II forbade young men to marry. Valentine, a priest, married young couples secretly. Some say that he was executed on February 14, about 269 C.E. In any case, a “saintly†title cannot conceal the unsavory origin of this celebration. Valentine Day is rooted in pagan rituals and is therefore not celebrated by true Christians. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Year-round expressions of genuine love are much more rewarding than the passing fancies of a sentimental holiday. [Footnotes] Herodotus suggests that Pan worship was influenced by the Egyptians, among whom goat worship was common. The phrase “goat-shaped demons†found in the Bible may allude to this form of pagan worship.—Leviticus 17:7; 2 Chronicles 11:15. Some say that Gelasius simply replaced Lupercalia with the “Feast of the Purification.â€
2 Peter 2:4-5 says, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment." Mark 9:46 describes hell as: "Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched." Matthew 8:12 says, "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Isaiah 66:24 reads: "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." Daniel 12:2 describes the duration of hell: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." Luke 16:22-24 uses a parable to describe hell: "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'" Luke 12:5 says, "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." Mark 9:47 says, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell." Matthew 23:33 reads: "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?" Revelation 19:20 talks about the fiery lake: "But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur." Really?
Correct translation reads: Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar′ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment; 5 and he did not hold back from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a deluge upon a world of ungodly people Correct translation for Mark 9:43-48 reads:“And if ever your hand makes you stumble, cut it off; it is finer for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go off into Ge·hen′na, into the fire that cannot be put out. 44 —— 45 And if your foot makes you stumble, cut it off; it is finer for you to enter into life lame than with two feet to be pitched into Ge·hen′na. 46 —— 47 And if your eye makes you stumble, throw it away; it is finer for you to enter one-eyed into the kingdom of God than with two eyes to be pitched into Ge·hen′na, 48 where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out. Correct translation reads :whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.†Correct translation reads: “And they will actually go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that were transgressing against me; for the very worms upon them will not die and their fire itself will not be extinguished, and they must become something repulsive to all flesh. Correct translation reads :2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence Correct translation reads :Now in course of time the beggar died and he was carried off by the angels to the bosom [position] of Abraham. “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in Ha′des he lifted up his eyes, he existing in torments, and he saw Abraham afar off and Laz′a·rus in the bosom [position] with him. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Laz′a·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this blazing fire. Correct translation reads :But I will indicate to YOU whom to fear: Fear him who after killing has authority to throw into Ge·hen′na. Yes, I tell YOU, fear this One. Already quoted above Correct translation reads :“Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen′na? Correct translation reads :And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. Now, read this. It's long, but it's worth it: Gehenna, a Place of Eternal Punishment OUTSIDE of the small number of serious students of the Bible there are very few people who know what Gehenna really is. The vast majority of people are totally ignorant on a subject they should be very much concerned about. This is a pity, because, for the most part, they are not responsible for their ignorance. Hundreds of years ago creed-bound men mistranslated into the many Bible versions certain Greek words. This is one reason for the general misunderstanding on the subject of what the eternal punishment of the wicked is. Another reason is the fact that the clergymen of Christendom, although many of them know the truth of the matter, have done very little to inform the people concerning Gehenna’s true nature. To the west and south, and immediately outside the ancient city of Jerusalem, was a valley first known in Hebrew as gey ben [b’ne] hinnom, “the valley of the son [or, sons] of Hinnom.†Later it was just called gey hinnom, “valley of Hinnom,†or in the Greek tongue, Gehenna. It was a rather deep and narrow gorge, with steep rocky slopes, situated not far from the great temple and palace of Solomon. One portion of this valley was later called Topheth, and it was here, some believe, that a music grove was located where Solomon’s royal singers and musicians gathered to fill the valley with songs of praise to Jehovah.—Josh. 15:8; 2 Ki. 23:10; Jer. 19:2, 6. However, in his old age, when Solomon’s heart was turned away from serving the only true God, he built abominable altars in this ravine to the pagan gods and goddess of Molech, Baal, Chemosh and Ashtoreth. (1 Ki. 11:5-7) It is said that a monstrous idol of brass was here erected which was heated from within, and into whose red-hot arms the idol worshipers cast alive their sons and daughters. As a consequence, this valley that once resounded with Jehovah’s praise was filled with the screams of little children who were offered up as sacrifices to the fire-god Molech.—2 Chron. 28:3; 33:6. In due time, faithful King Josiah stamped out this fiendishness, and in order that the practice might not spring up again he polluted the valley by defiling it with dead men’s bones. (2 Ki. 23:10, 14; 2 Chron. 34:4, 5) From that time on Gehenna became the common cesspool for the city’s sewage, a place where all of Jerusalem’s garbage and filth were dumped. Here the bodies of dead animals and executed criminals were thrown. It was the city’s incinerator, and to keep the fires burning sulphur or brimstone was added. The sides of the cliffs were jagged and some of the refuse thrown over clung to the rocks, and as putrefaction set in worms or maggots consumed the fleshy parts rather than the sulphurous fires below. To the Jewish mind Gehenna became a vivid symbol of destruction and an abomination, an abhorrence to the eye, and a stench to the nostrils. What a fitting example and illustration Gehenna was for Jeremiah to use! When that prophet of God pointed to that defiled place as an example of what Jehovah purposed to do to that rebellious nation they got the point. They knew that Almighty God purposed to destroy them as completely as anything thrown into the literal Gehenna was annihilated. “Thus will I do unto this place, saith Jehovah, and to the inhabitants thereof, even making this city as Topheth: and the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, which are defiled, shall be as the place of Topheth.†“Therefore, behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that it shall no more be called Topheth, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of Slaughter.â€â€”Jer. 19:12, 13; 7:32, 33, AS. And so it was when Jerusalem was finally destroyed A.D. 70. According to the Jewish historian, Josephus, between 2,000,000 and 3,000,000 inhabitants died of famine or disease or were killed by the Romans, and it appears that many of their dead bodies were thrown into Gehenna after that terrible struggle. Now then, in view of what Gehenna was, literally and symbolically, what better illustration or symbol could the Great Prophet, Christ Jesus, use when telling Jews what was in store for the wilfully wicked? When he said certain ones were liable to wind up in Gehenna, his listeners two millenniums ago knew exactly what he was talking about. They knew that if the sulphurous fires did not consume their dead bodies, the ever-present maggots would. In either event, they knew full well that to be cast into Gehenna meant they were criminals unworthy of either a burial or a resurrection, only annihilation. But some may ask: ‘When or where did Jesus speak of Gehenna? In our Catholic Douay and Protestant King James Bibles we do not find the word Gehenna.’ Quite true. This is the point made earlier, that those men who translated the Bible from the original Hebrew and Greek and from the Latin Vulgate into English in the early seventeenth century were so mentally bound up and constrained by man-made creeds of “eternal torment†and “hell fire†they were not free to make even an honest translation. Consequently, at the twelve places in the Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the “New Testamentâ€, where the name Gehenna occurs, they translated it “hellâ€, which English word they also used to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Hades and Tartaros. All modern translators of any repute, both Catholic and Protestant, have been forced to make note of and apologize for the gross blunder in the following texts: Matthew 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6. The English Revised, American Standard, Revised Standard, Catholic Confraternity, Spencer’s (Catholic), Young’s, Rotherham’s, Weymouth’s, Moffatt’s, Emphatic Diaglott, the New World Translation, and many other modern versions, either correct the error in the text or make note of it in their footnotes. NO TORMENT IN GEHENNA ‘What is that? No eternal torment in the never-dying fires of Gehenna?’ That is correct even though contrary to popular opinion. The general idea held by organized religionists is that Gehenna is just another name for the fantastic ecclesiastical firepool so fanatically taught by the clergy. Simply carrying over the Greek word Gehenna into English Bibles means nothing if the clergy continue to deceive the people into believing that Gehenna is a place of eternal torment. As the Encyclopedia Americana (1942 ed., v. 14, p. 81) observes: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.†There is a vast distinction between eternal torment and eternal destruction. Gehenna symbolizes the latter, a place of everlasting destruction. There was no thought of torment in the ancient Gehenna outside the walls of Jerusalem, for nothing alive was cast therein. To be tormented it would have to be alive! Hence, Gehenna cannot possibly symbolize torment or torture, either temporary or eternal. On this point, it is well to consider what modern translators have to say. The footnote of Matthew 5:22, in the Catholic Confraternity translation of 1941, does not say that criminals were cast alive into Gehenna to be tortured in its fire and brimstone, but rather it was the place “where the bodies of criminals were burnt after execution of sentenceâ€. Commenting on this same text, the Roman Catholic Dr. F. A. Spencer, in his translation of 1937, says that when King Josiah desecrated the valley of Gehenna “the Jews thereafter used it as a dumping place for all kinds of refuse and the bodies of dead animals and criminals. To prevent infection, fires were kept always burning there; and the place became a type of the state of punishment of the lostâ€. You see, there were fires in the literal Gehenna all right, but they were not used to torture even the worst criminals, criminals whose dead bodies were thrown there because they were considered unworthy of a resurrection. After giving a brief history of the place, the appendix, page 891, of Benjamin Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott (1864), declares: “Gehenna, then, as occurring in the New Testament, symbolizes death and utter destruction, but in no place signifies a place of eternal torment.†To which can be added the following significant paragraph found in the appendix, page 767, of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures (1950): “No living animals or human creatures were pitched into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. Hence the place could never symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented in literal fire and attacked by undying immortal worms for ever and ever. (Isa. 66:24) Because the dead criminals cast here were denied a decent burial in a memorial tomb, which symbolizes the hope of a resurrection, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize everlasting destruction, annihilation from God’s universe, or ‘second death’, an eternal punishment. Hence to be sentenced to have one’s dead body cast into Gehenna was considered the worst kind of punishment. From the literal Gehenna and from its significance the symbol of the ‘lake burning with fire and sulphur’ was drawn, at Revelation 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8.†“Fire†is a symbol of utter destruction. Consequently, Revelation says in symbolic language that those who do not get life are hurled into the fiery lake which is the “second deathâ€. Likewise Jude 7 says that Sodom and Gomorrah are punished with “eternal fireâ€. This is not literal fire, for those cities are now under water on the bottom of the Red sea. Jesus says in the parable that the “sheep†receive everlasting life, but the “goats†the opposite, “everlasting cutting-off†in destruction. (Matt. 25:46, NW; ED) The narration of the rich man and Lazarus at Luke 16:19-31 is just a parable, hence not literal. There is not one scripture that supports “eternal torment†or “everlasting torment†when correctly understood. What the Devil and his followers justly receive is everlasting cutting-off from life in annihilation.
And believe it or not the Sha-Than "different spellings" was actually a code word in Kaballah mysticisim for the ego driven reactive mind and the wish to recieve for the self alone. In fact the entire concept of the horned devil was created by the catholic church and is derived from demonizing earlier pagan religions AKA Pan in greek mythology.
You guys (the mormons, the jehavos, the christians, the muslims, etc) can't even come up with one solid story, how do you expect anyone to believe YOUR little version of the fairy tale is right?
I don't expect anything from you but negativity. going by all of your comments. I mean, did you even read any of what I just posted? What, no comments about it from you? Hmmmmmm....then again....As I said....I don't expect it from you. Yo-yo. I hope you are smiling and you are happy!
All of your comments are about the translation of a fairy tale book. It doesn't matter how you translate it, it's still fake either way! Funny you should say that. At the last company I worked for before becoming self-employed, I worked with a Jev. Witness for 2 long years. He was the most unhappy person I'd ever met. He was reaching 30, still living with his mom, never celebrated when everyone else went out, never even had a girlfriend! All the sacrifices and a lifetime of lost happiness over a fake religion.. really is sad!
Please stop with this JW translation thing. You shouldn't rewrite the bible to get it to say what you want it to. The fear of hell, makes you want it to not exist at all??
Fear my ass. Hell was something dreamed up by the catholic church to scare people into doing what they said. Do what we say or you will be tormented for eternity. Muahahahah The Bible has already been rewritten. Since the council of Nicea to the present day. Ever notice how there are 100 different versions of hell. I know something you cant even wrap your mind around, but you cant handle the truth. Your not ready. Are you. I think not.
So what you're saying is that if I am a good boy, I will go to heaven but if I'm in it for the booze, drugs and prostitutes then I am just annihilated? Cool! Bring on the whores and coke!
I never said I rewrote the Bible. You yourself are saying that. The original transcripts must be translated correctly. I feel that you need to look inot this a bit further than you have. It's got nothing to do with what I want. I am only speaking about what the Bible says. You are putting words in my mouth.