Let's fast forward to 2012, I'll give you a scenario, and tell me what you would do in this situation. Obama is running against Mr. X in the 2012 presidential elections. Many of us, probably the majority of us, love Mr. X. We think he's wonderful, and every thing America needs. We all run out to vote for Mr. X, but the results come back that Obama has won, and there is proof that the Obama administration committed fraud to keep him in office. We are infuriated and go out to protest, but Obama has control of the military and we are beaten and arrested. Is there anything we could do about it?
It depends. Has Obama revoked our second amendment right to keep and bear arms? There's a little clause in the Declaration of Independence that makes it our duty to revolt under certain circumstances. I think you've described one such circumstance. Thank goodness the founding fathers endowed us with a government based on Lockelean principles Here's that clause: How easily do you think that can be misinterpreted?
We hear so much about the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but I don't hear as often about our duty to overthrow the government in certain cases. The fact that so many civilians in the US bear arms could help in this situation, although, I'm not sure the constitution itself would. In an "absolute Despotism' the constitution would just be words without meaning. Just for the record, I don't feel that we are anywhere remotely close to that in the US. We are not perfect, but I think this is a great country. This thread was just kind of a "what if?" Edit: Ooops, I just got this feedback that says, "We are not Iran and this is a lame hypo." Whoever left the feedback, sorry if you don't like this thread, I was just curious what we would do in a similiar situation.
Before I left the US earlier this year I fully exercised my right to carry. I even had a CCW in my state (Colorado). I don't believe enough people exercise that option. I'm not knocking the US. I'm not saying it's perfect. It is what it is. I hate to see people throw away their rights. It's damn near impossible to reclaim your freedom sans revolt once you've lost it. Back to your scenario. Has Obama revoked our right to bear arms?
Godwins law. I've no doubt this has been said a few dozen times already, but both Hitler and Stalin implemented gun control measures shortly before subjecting their people to some fairly heinous situations, including, but not limited to acts of genocide. History has pretty much shown us that once the guns go, we're effectively screwed.
Not true. Humans stand tall the more you beat/opress them. I would expect a massive revolt of all you Yankees as you are so used to free speech/demonstrations etc. So in short: No.
I support our second amendment rights, and agree that armed citizens do tend to deter oppressive governments. I found this article that was interesting, Currently I don't own a gun, but I would like to when I have more time to take lessons on the proper usage of one. I've shot a rifle before, but am far from being an expert. It would be a fun hobby, and great for self defense.
I'd love to believe that, Squishy! Enough people believe Obama is going to ban their guns that gun stores across the US are seeing record sales, and ammo is in short supply. I'd say that's a pretty good indication that people are willing to fight. But we're talking about a far fetched scenario here.... Care to comment on that?
The US has a constitutional process. It will be up to the US Supreme Court to decide should there be an election dispute. Additionally, the US has further safeguards in that the electoral college votes to elect the President. The electors could choose to vote against the winning candidate. Further Congress can impeach and remove the President.
Ah yes. The same process that was used when the NY City voters passed term limits, and the NY City Council members overturned them in favor of a third term not only for Bloomberg, but all of the council members. I guess corrupt parties seem to stick together. Where does that leave the constitutional process? Sometimes, the voters just lose.
This is true, the OP is comparing a "civilised" country like USA to the likes of what has happened in Iran recently. USA has a constitution to which every American is bound to abide by, there is no such thing in Iran and they simply do whatever the Aitholla says. However, the constitution and the Supreme Court do not always work the way they should as Al Gore was unable to get a recount in Florida because nobody on the US Senate would sign the petitions made by the residents of Florida to say that they believed the voting process to be unfair. So in answer to the OP's original question, you can try to do something about it but it may not work!
They actually did a recount, albeit later. Al Gore still lost. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_watch/jan-june01/recount_4-3.html
In the case of New York, the City Charter should be amended. Believe me, you don't want riots and illegal militias forming everytime some people feel that they have grievances. During the 1970s they were plenty of revolutionary groups such as the Black Panthers, Weatherman, SLA Army that were placing bombs etc. There was a recount in Florida and George Bush won.
Obama can attack small country like bangladesh to fuel love for country and win in election without doing any manipulation.
I agree that there are more safeguards to prevent that scenario in this country than in almost any other country. You'll notice that in Iran there are no Pro-Ahmadinijad protesters in the streets which is VERY telling about how that election probably really went.
Ask Iranian people , they have more experience in this... well i dont wish this scenario to U - american people ... but who knows , the history keeps many stories like this ...
I agree with this bogart, but it all falls apart when the deck is stacked against us. Given the right circumstances, these positions can be filled or taken over by other Progressives. BO may have the opportunity to stack the Supreme Court with Progressives. He might not be able to do this in his first term. Souter and Ginsberg are already Liberal/Progressives, so they are no real loss. But who knows what opportunities he may have if he gets elected for a second term. If one or two Conservatives retire, he can stack the deck in his favor for a long time. BTW, Sotomayor does not believe that the citizens are entitled to own firearms under the Second Amendment. IMHO, the electoral college process fell apart in the last election, because the number of voting members is overwhelmingly in favor of Liberal/Progressive states. Obama won a landslide with electoral college votes, but not with the popular vote. Electoral college members are not elected by the people and therefore an election can be corrupted simply by focusing on the Progressive vote in high population states, which almost all happen to be Liberal/Progressive states. Congress can impeach and remove the President, but that will never happen if the current imbalance in Congress remains. The hurdle for a successful removal through impeachment is pretty high. You also have the factor that really played well for Obama in this election with the use of "useful idiots" in the media who were overwhelmingly in favor of Obama and showed no sign of objectivity or willingness to investigate Obama. Most people believe what they hear and spend no time investigating anything, so the media is a strong and powerful influence. There are a lot of things wrong with our political process, but the real problem is that most people just gripe about it and focus on their daily lives. I don't think there will be a real revolt until masses of people are starving in the streets in America.
We made it through one term of Jimmy Carter. It was tough at the end of his term. The Soviets were toppling over third world countries like a monkey eating peanuts. Inflation was at 20% and the Dow was at 1000. The last election was somewhat close. Indiana Obama +1% - 11 Electoral Votes North Carolina -1% - 15 Votes Ohio Obama +4% - 20 votes Florida Obama +2% - 27 votes http://www.npr.org/news/specials/election2008/2008-election-map.html#/president?view=race08