For all you Obamamaniacs: I have some questions for you

I know there are many Obama supporters out there and I have debated a lot of them- some friends of mine, others not, some online, others face-to-face- but until today I have not gotten a straight answer on how Obama is good for the economy. I have heard tons of claims, but after my retorts, I usually end up hearing attacks on the Bush administration or they try to circle the issue at hand or, they say something that doesn't really have anything to do with what I want to know.

So, maybe one of you Obama supporters on this forum can try to tell me how this man is good for this nation economically. With interest rates heading up, Russia and Brazil announcing that they are partially switching out of the USD reserve (and China also looking at other options), with gold and oil prices going up again, with the deficit growing, and with the Federal Reserve starting to get in hot water with things like Bernanke's involvement in the Merrill merger and the mismanagement of TARP among other things- how do you justify his actions?

 

for me everything is comparative.

 

So you are saying that you support him over Mccain? I am no fan of Mccain, but with what Obama is doing, I would take Mccain and his supply-siders over this because atleast they have a little (not much, but a little) more respect for the Constitution. That aside, I still wouldn't support Mccain and I don't support Obama- it is all about the policies for me and neither one appeals to me so I would rather not choose an evil than choose "the lesser of two evils."

note: I did not vote for either Mccain or Obama, I voted for Ron Paul, a man who has very constitutional and capitalist beliefs.

 

i oppose the republicans with no limit. they have shown lack of good judgment over and over again. or even a logical decision making ability. they are like a bee hive and rush is the queen bee.

 

It is more than just about the parties. It is about the individuals and how each individual votes. People within one party can drastically differ as can easily be seen by comparing someone like Paul with someone like Mccain.

Anyway, you say that Republicans have shown bad judgement over and over again and looking at recent times, I would agree, but I would also add that Democrats have shown bad judgement over and over again as well. In fact, I would say that the left has shown very short-sighted judgement since FDR- with hundreds of social and governmental programs created to help those in need that only ended up making things worse in the long run. Social security, Fannie/Freddie and the expansion of the Fed's powers are three things that really jump out among these.

Even if you limit the conversation to the parties, the Democratic party has clearly been a lot more disastrous and short-sighted in the past century than the Republicans. If you look at the actually policies, you will see even more clearly that the Keynesians have created the most economic distortion and long term problems than any other group.

 

There is an old famous quote that is very true "A house divided against itself soon falls'.
How are we ever to know what might work if we cannot get the entire group to work together?
There are a lot of smart people in this world. Seems like we should use them. Perhaps we should hand over the government to Google or Microsoft? :

 

I'll respond to that quotation with another quotation:
"A generation which ignores history has no past - and no future." -Robert Heinlein

How will we know it doesn't work? Simple. This has all been done before and it has failed. Look at the Soviets, look at the facist movements in Italy and Germany, look at the history of central banks and fiat money. What Obama is doing has all been done before and it has failed.

 

Get the entire group to work together? What are you, fresh out of kindergarten?

Lemme tell you why we can't all "work together as a group". Ok, how about we do things MY way, and then we all do it as a group, would you be ok with that? Would you be ok with a very very very small government? Oh, you want something different?

You are apparently the result of public schooling, i can only guess. When will people realize we're not part of a group, we're individuals. This is proven in the fact that you don't agree with my limited government beliefs.

 

please get a grip. fix the republican party and come back. and stop saying Fannie/Freddie, it shows you belong to the hive. and social security is a good thing.

 

Really, who's paying for it?

 

Exactly. Everything is about the individual because individuals make up the groups. The best sort of rights are those that recognize everyone for who they really are, not for what group they belong to.

Stop saying Fannie/Freddie? Why should I? Do you have a reason? Considering that the two GSEs, created by FDR- a Democrat and Keynesian, played a large role in creating the current housing crisis by backing assets and essentially insuring risk helped inflate the bubble. Not only that, but they also dipped into the CDO market and lost billions of taxpayer dollars as well as inflated the CDO market as well.

As for social security- considering that the funds are going to dry up within the next 20-40 years and the people who paid income taxes won't have anything left to collect, I'd say it is not a good program. It would have been better to trust the people with their own lives instead of having the government baby them around and lose billions in the bureaucracy.

 

everybody.and once it is saved everybody will benefit

 

Wow you're really smart huh?

 

because it shows that you just repeat what you hear on the radio.
i already said that.
if you want to talk about something please use your own mind. i can not have a debate with someone that is not present in the conversation.

 

Not everybody- only those that work. There in lies one of the biggest logical fallacies of socialism. Also, what do you mean by saved? What do you have in mind?

 

yes

radio again. i usually change the channel.
but hhere you go just this once. increase the tax. increase retirement age. do not pay the people that don't need it.

 

Haha. You have no idea who I am and what I do. How can you judge me so quickly and further more how do you know I am not the person on the radio?

I am not using any political talking point (something that Obama does a lot I might add,) but I am simply stating the facts. I am saying this through my own intelligence and what I know on the subject. All you are saying is you can't say that because everyone says that- well let me tell you, that is no valid argument and you are only hurting your own ethos.

If you don't agree with what I said about Fannie/Freddie, why don't you give some factual evidence as to why you think I am wrong? Or is the real issue here that you don't have any?

 

obama obama obama obama. that is all you have.time to turn the radio off. it is the shortening of the names to Fannie/Freddie that gives away the connection to radio

 

So why don't you make a logical response and counter what he's saying instead of saying the same thing in every post, you're being an intellectual coward. Grow a pair, don't be like Zibblu, if you're gonna start something then you better finish it.

 

And what about the market distortions? What about the deadweight losses that that causes? What about those that end up paying more than they collect? Why should people that are successful have to support people that aren't? What incentive does that leave to work? What if we have passed the peak of the Laffer curve in the income tax- where will you get the additional revenue from? There are many holes in the social security argument. Answer me these- or will you just give me more rhetoric about how I am evil and you are generous?

Again, you just hurt your ethos. This thread is about Obama, which is why I am talking about Obama here. That is how the forum system works in case you didn't know. In a thread about Bush I will talk about Bush.

As for Fannie/Freddie, you still have no facts. I used Fannie and Freddie because I didn't want to type out the whole name- not because it is some radio talking point. I am sure you too use abbreviations or shorthand at times. Also, the fact that you may hear Fannie/Freddie a lot doesn't mean anything. It would not hold up in any real debate with a judging panel and it would not hold up in the court of law. If a man was unlawfully arrested and everyone was angry over it, does it mean that the people who expressed their anger later on simply copied those that expressed their anger first? Of course not. I am sure you were not the first Obama supporter, so using your flawed logic I can say you simply copied the original Obama supporters. Or to put it more in your terms, I'll say you like Obama only because "the radio" does.