Before I go out to vote, I urge every Briton on this board to vote to keep our sovereignty, vote UKIP - United Kingdom Independence Party. Don't think your vote won't count, because they all do in this case - it's proportional representation this time. Other people in Europe, when your time comes over the next few days, vote to keep your sovereignty too. Vote against the EU.
it's cool that you have such a party and that it's your 4th largest party (according to them). Over here there isn't even a discussion about such things. The Lisbon treaty was signed by our president after a two hour visit by Sarcozy.
Gah unlucky mate. That is really bad. I tell you what, today I was on the UKIP website and some news came in which said that the polling monitors, from around the country, had been folding the ballot slip so that the last few parties couldn't be seen without unfolding it. This meant that hundreds of people didn't vote UKIP (and others) because they thought they weren't on the slip. This is disgusting. I hope UKIP takes legal actions against these idiots. I can't see any rational reason why anyone would need to fold the damn paper before it's used - it's not that long. You should get a few friends together and maybe campaign for independence. I'm sure you'd receive help from parties over here such as UKIP, BNP and NO2EU.
but I like EU. I like to travel without borders and I want Euro to be the currency of all 27 EU states. besides I have already voted for party that supports EU, in Estonia you can vote over the Internet during pre-elections and since I am online pretty much all the time then this is how I voted.
Tere tere, Hanz...I think the online voting you guys have is a great thing, wish we had it. Brum, not to scratch an irritant, but do you see any irony in the phrase, United Kingdom Independence Party? I ask, because I'm reminded of how I was once called to task by the late Michael Jackson - I've mentioned him before, the beer and malt writer, not pedophile/ex-King of Pop...Jackson once said to me, when I mentioned "United Kingdom" in some context I now forget, that there "is no United Kingdom." I was chastened, for presuming a united set of islands. Anyway, do you see an irony in talking about sovereignty and independence, and the United Kingdom, in the same breath? I love England, and the English. As I love Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and the people that inhabit each of these. I also embrace what a writer I deeply admire once wrote, John Fowles, his harkening to "green England," not the Brittania of Victoria's hand.
Nortpointaiki, I would like to see the dissolution of the United Kingdom one day, but first we must make sure we're not being conglomerated by an entire continent, surely you must understand that we must takes things one step at a time?
I like travelling freely throughout europe too. The euro is a pretty good thing too, but the problem is they've created an illegitimate european government, and they're giving it too much power. I say it's illegitimate because it hasn't been approved by the majority of each country's population. @northpointaiki Many of the present European states have been formed out of smaller states. And as far as I know the scots, the english or the welsh have never voted vor pulling out of the union, while the european constitution as been rejected by voters from a number of countries Anyway, we have elections for the eu parliament this Sunday, I've decided not to vote. There simply isn't any party which I can idendify with on either external or internal affairs.
Brum, Iul - far be it from me to pontificate. I certainly understand your positions. I myself am torn - between a love of my land, a pretty impassioned love of my peoples' collective history, and a complete intellectual rejection of the nation-state as a constructed thing, of the last couple hundred years only. The European model - the historical evolution, from "the birth of the Leviathan" (fantastic book) to the present day convergence, is something I am fascinated by. Iul, can I ask - it doesn't sound like you're opposed to the concept of a closer convergence, or an internationalist approach (in theory), but you feel the present Brussels regime is illegitimate - do I understand you correctly? Brum, again, I've no right to really pontificate. But if you're issue is sovereignty, I'd say, as with all things, it starts at home. In other words, I see no logical reason why "home" rule for all of the lands presently in the U.K. must follow after the U.K. secedes from all involvement in the EU. Can you explain your reasoning here a bit more?
There is a United Kingdom IMO, for Britain anyway not so sure about Ireland but i definitely would be more inclined to automatically bond with someone from Scotland or Wales rather than someone from France or Belgium just simply because we would have alot more in common in culture and everyday life. Britain is such a small island there is no need for it to be divided, and even if it is with Wales and Scotland it should remain united. Being half Scottish myself i would be pretty sad if they dissolved themselves from the UK. Anyway i'm glad you like it here so much, any reason? Any particular places you have visited and enjoyed? Can't tell if that was a joke but i'll tell you why i despise anyone who supports BNP. A BNP victory would betray all that Britain stands for. 65 years ago brave men and women took to arms to protect us all from the perils of fascism. They gave everything and more to keep the Nazi threat off of British soil. The BNP want to offer cash incentives for people of other colour and race to go back to their own countrys. This wouldn't effect me, but these people are just sick racist fascist white supremacists and they are looking to gain substantial ground in the European elections. Take a look at these vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhbR3wuYDgw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Dygboz4Ew
Nope, I'm not attracted of the ideea of having a powerful centralised government simply because such a government can't really be controlled by the voters. I mean, look at how the french and the dutch bypassed the votes of their population regarding the european constitution. If the dutch or the french voters can't even make their voices heard within their own country how are they're going to make themselfs heard in that European mammoth government? And if even the french voters can't make their voices heard, and the brits, germans, spaniards and italians don't even get to vote on this issue, how are the smaller countries going to make their voices heard? The european constitution in its Lisbon treaty disguise is clearly nothing more than an attempt to concentrate the power. Right now at least all decisions must be approved by all the member states, but the lisbon treaty would make majority votes (a 60% majority if i remember correctly) enough for taking decisions. This being said I do appreciate some things about the EU, specially the common market, the easy travel, the euro currency is pretty good too( specially compared to the crap Leu (romanian money) ). I also like the European Court
Lose what, our sovereignty? Yes, and no. We're not as controlled as most of the European countries, but they have tried to change things we don't want changed - like threatening to arrest market sellers whom sell is Imperial measurement units instead of metric... We want out, and UKIP's huge success as the second winning party shows this. I hope in the general election UKIP win lots of seats.
how are you not as controlled as some of the other european countries? Can you give some examples of what countries are you referring to?
I'm referring to places like Germany, Belgium and France. We still have our own currency, have control over its value and issue and we use Imperial units, for example.
Sorry for the lateness in reply, Iul. Thanks for your thoughts - I understand your perspective (as I similarly understand yours, Brum). I am still piqued by the notion, but that is because I find the whole concept of "nation" such an artificial thing - basically, no matter what my personal feelings are, the impression that the nation-state will one day be antiquated before another image, a way for us to organize ourselves. It blows my mind that this thing, "nation" has been around for a mere few centuries at most, and at that, how constructed at best. My conclusion, anyway. But between some theoretical thing and practical effects today, I can see how it can lose its charm pretty damn quickly.
A nation and nationalism are artificial and saw their emergence here around Henry VII's reign, when he greatly limiting the military power Nobility had, thus moving towards a more unified state under the remaining King's army; England's first standing army. The only non-artificial gathering of peoples are tribes or family units. While we all would like to see government decentralised, given the choices we have: policies being mediated (in theory, anyway...) by your fellow countrymen, who share many common views and ideas - regardless of how weak correlation may be - and having them mediated by not only more people, which weakens the unity and probability of common views and ideas anyway, but also complicates the situation by forcing compliance between different cultures. The biggest issue here regarding the EU, is that we were promised a referendum on the EU constitution, and then the government changed its mind.