thank you for correcting my spelling, I wrote it as I pronounce it, probably both the pronunciation and the spelling are wrong for me, but I m glad you got the meaning, are you asking for something obamanation? post the verse and the verse that you think it contradicts it, and I will be glad to answer you, or anybody else, feel free to post both and ask, there is nothing wrong in asking, but try to make your questions specific, now about the relation between Muslims and other people from other religions, and I apologize in advance for the lengthy post: according to Islamophobes and Islam haters, you have several options as a non-Muslim living in a Muslim state: 1- revert to Islam. 2- pay (Jizya) as a (Dhimmi). 3- if not any of the above two, then there is only one option left: die. based on that they go on and say: "Islam was spread by the sword" and if a Muslim showed them this verse: they again think they are smart and say, and show this other verse: or this verse: and say contradiction, again their big negative emotions about Islam make them so eager to post, or speak before they get all info about the subject they are discussing, even if it been explained to them before many times, as on these forums, you will still find the same people posting and saying contradiction, without they even ask a single question in the past, this only shows that they have one interest, and I think it is obvious to all. in Quran, non-Muslims have rights, I have not seen this word so far in other holy books, in speaking for people from other beliefs, all I have seen is kill, destroy, leave no prisoners ...etc have they asked themselves, why would Mohammad pbuh say this: when in some other religions it says: have they read historical testimonies by non-Muslims? about how Muslims treated them? have they compared it to the teachings of other religions? so why then is this verse? do you think Muslims would read a verse, and do the opposite? if it tells them kill all non-Muslims, why they do not just do it? why they did not do it when they have the ability to do it without anybody accounting them? why the Church of Virginity for example still exists despite Muslims ruled there for hundreds of years? why did they protect it? wouldn't it be of much logic to destroy it? since they want to force non-Muslims to convert to Islam? the next as I have seen in such arguments of Islamophobes, is because non-Muslims were paying money (Jizya) if they did not wish to convert, and those who converted then, were so poor, so they had no other option, except pay or die, this get us back to the above 3 options, the first option and since Islam is a universal message, revert, this is an option to human being, but it must be willingly cos the Quran states, "let there be no compulsion in religion" then why is the Jizya? and can't be considered as compulsion? was Jizya the reason why many then reverted to Islam? non-Muslims pay Jizya which is true, in return of several things, one is protection, I have seen some mocking saying, yeah protection from Muslims themselves, because if they did not pay they will be killed. that can only be true if the person who is asked to pay, can't afford it, but if they asked and get info about Jizya they will easily find that: Jizya (compensation) is only taken from men who are in military age, who are sane, healthy and who can afford it, which means, old men, women, children, unemployed, and poor are not asked to pay it, yet they get all the privileges as citizens of the Islamic state, so what are these privileges? they are not asked to fight for protecting the state. they have protected wealth and properties. they can practice trade freely. they have the rights of freely practicing their faith. and more.. and for those who say some converted cos they could not afford it, they did not notice that Muslims pay too, Jizya for non-Muslims for the reasons above, and Zakah and some other taxes for Muslims, so reverting, does not mean you will not pay, if you are able to pay. the contradiction these funny people failed to notice too, is how?? when Muslims are ordered not to make friends with Christians or Jews, how can they be allowed to marry from them? or.. Why did Mohammad pbuh marry Maria the Coptic despite she was Christian, and she never reverted to Islam? easier to say contradiction for some, here is the verse again: in three different translations: notice they did not ask here, (have Jews and Christians been friends really?) was Hitler a friend to Jews? or he was not Christian? would it be more logical if they say, we found another error in Quran because Jews and Christians have not been friends! it will be a good idea to check the word in the original Arabic text, it's (Awliya) if you have Arabic fonts it is (أولياء) based on google translator it means (parents) but this is not the correct meaning either, the most close translation was (friends+protectors) the other two translations said "for friends. They are friends one to another." now this is your homework Islamophobes , find the correct meaning of the Arabic word ( Awliya ) it is not friends, nor parents, nor companions, or colleagues, and hopefully this will answer your question of why Muslims have Christian and Jews friends when it's not allowed according to Quran. as some claim falsely.
Regarding the contradictions, somebody already posted them, you just didnt answer them. Regarding you lengthy answer, sorry I simply don't care enough to hear the explanation. I read one phrase that says one thing, and another that says the opposite I call contradiction. All the explanation goes in one ear and out the other as propaganda. Jesus Christ, I've turned into stOx.
No, I pointed out you answered contradictions which weren't asked about. My question was, are you unable to answer the contradictions presented?
I have already answered in my first post, with one example, and encouraged anybody who is interested to look for them when I said: "these so-called contradictions and many others are very easy to find and read about online" I also said " if anybody wants links feel free to ask" you said they were left unanswered, before you ask me for a link, did you look and did not find anything about it, on these forums? and online? do you want me to give you links or copy and paste for you? if so, feel free to ask, so where do you still see a contradiction? this is what I wanted to know, sura 9 already been discussed as handy picked verses, and as a whole several times here.
“And we used to call the day of judgment a lie; / Till death overtook us.†This sounds to be perfect.
Rehashed polemics again regarding Qur'anul Karim. Oh sure, lets play the "I find these violent verses in Qur'an so Islam is baaaaaaaad" in a tit-for-tat, shall we? What about these verses in the Bible? “Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.†[Deuteronomy 12:2-3] “Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places: And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it. And ye shall divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families: and to the more ye shall give the more inheritance, and to the fewer ye shall give the less inheritance: every man’s inheritance shall be in the place where his lot falleth; according to the tribes of your fathers ye shall inherit. But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.†[Num. 33:52-55] “The land, unto which ye go to possess it, is an unclean land with the filthiness of the people of the lands, with their abominations, which have filled it from one end to another with their uncleanness. Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever.†[Ezra 9:11-12] “Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be a heap for ever; it shall not be built again.†[Deut. 13:15-16] Something to read for further education
7. Perhaps Allah will make friendship between you and those whom you hold as enemies. And Allah has power (over all things), and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 8. Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity. 9. It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah). 10. O you who believe! When believing women come to you as emigrants, examine them, Allah knows best as to their Faith, then if you ascertain that they are true believers, send them not back to the disbelievers, they are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers nor are the disbelievers lawful (husbands) for them. But give the disbelievers that (amount of money) which they have spent [as their Mahr] to them. And there will be no sin on you to marry them if you have paid their Mahr to them. Likewise hold not the disbelieving women as wives, and ask for (the return of) that which you have spent (as Mahr) and let them (the disbelievers, etc.) ask back for that which they have spent. That is the Judgement of Allah. He judges between you. And Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. ( Surah Al-Mumtahinah ) These Quotes show that whom do you need to make friends !
don't worry, it's unavoidable if you treat with religious kooks long enough while trying to keep your intellectual integrity.
Your words and attempted defense of how some practice Islam rings hollow when all one has to do is watch the news to see how others read these passages and use them to justify violence against those who disagree. One need only look at the Islamic terrorist in Pakistan who use the Quran to justify their attacks on fellow Muslims. While you can spin, and say the words don't really mean what they plainly say. The actions of Muslims around the world, attacking other Muslims and people of all faiths simply cannot be ignored. You can't spin you way out of reality. Don't worry though, the big war between the entire world (including Muslims) against Islamic extremists is coming. Muslims and Jews and Christians will stand side by side and fight the scourge of Islamic terrorism. It is not all Muslims that are a problem - it is a just a large subset that think Islam justifies their terrorism.
there is nothing in Quran that can justify killing innocents whether they where their fellow Muslims or else, anything can be misused or abused, like the quotes from bible Rumsfield used to justify America's greed for oil (aka war on terror), but when you say: "the Islamic terrorist in Pakistan who use the Quran to justify their attacks on fellow Muslims." where is the problem here? in Quran? or elsewhere? and what is the suggested solution for this problem? pull Quran copies from the market maybe? or edit it? by removing these verses that can be used? and replace them with something like: "if somebody slapped you then turn your right cheek" or "if somebody throw a bomb on you then throw a flower on him" the rule is very simple in Islam, there is nothing that encourage on fighting when Muslims are not being attacked, but there are so much encouragement to fight against aggressors.
What Islam needs is moral and peaceful leaders so its billion followers stop listening to ignorant imams who encourage uncivilized, immoral, and violent behavior.
that sentence can be understood in different ways, but I can understand what you are trying to say here, and I do agree, that Muslims (not Islam) need good leaders.
Using Ghandi as an example, yes, you are right. He was a pivotal charismatic character, like Barak Obama. People listened to him, regardless of what their existing inclinations may have been. Outside of such a Jesus Christ like personality coming along, which I find unlikely, it leaves the problem with the people, not the leaders. Hamas was Democratically elected which tells you the people as a whole crave violence in conflict against Israeli. Afghanistan may be slightly different because their economy is propped up by the opium trade, which is in conflict with the west. In both cases, however, the mindset of the populous is violence and the Quran is used to support it. What kind of leadership is going to rise in opposition to the beliefs of the population? What these people need more than anything is education.
Using Ghandi as an example, yes, you are right. He was a pivotal charismatic character, like Barak Obama. People listened to him, regardless of what their existing inclinations may have been. Outside of such a Jesus Christ like personality coming along, which I find unlikely, it leaves the problem with the people, not the leaders. Hamas was Democratically elected which tells you the people as a whole crave violence in conflict against Israeli. Afghanistan may be slightly different because their economy is propped up by the opium trade, which is in conflict with the west. In both cases, however, the mindset of the populous is violence and the Quran is used to support it. What kind of leadership is going to rise in opposition to the beliefs of the population? What these people need more than anything is education.
Using Ghandi as an example, yes, you are right. He was a pivotal charismatic character, like Barak Obama. People listened to him, regardless of what their existing inclinations may have been. Outside of such a Jesus Christ like personality coming along, which I find unlikely, it leaves the problem with the people, not the leaders. Hamas was Democratically elected which tells you the people as a whole crave violence in conflict against Israeli. Afghanistan may be slightly different because their economy is propped up by the opium trade, which is in conflict with the west. In both cases, however, the mindset of the populous is violence and the Quran is used to support it. What kind of leadership is going to rise in opposition to the beliefs of the population? What these people need more than anything is education.
Very nice words. You almost got me saying: "man, that's it!" But, ofcourse, too bad its big bunch of crap............ Jews living among the people who wrote this book of hate were a negligible minority. How would preaching to kill or "not make friends" with jews will help survive the early prosecutions against Muslims? It is a book of hate my friend. A violent book not only against the jews, christians, but also against women. Against everything actually. The mere existence of the verses quoted in this and other threads, which even you describe as "unacceptable", make it a violent book. Quoting other parts of the book is in this case completely irrelevant and obsolete. as for people who wish to kill, these verses are already much more than the minimal excuse they need. The christians didn't have easy time at the beginning as well. I won't even mention the Buddhists. Yet, unlike Islam, Christianity not a violent religion. Christianity is a very stupid religion, but nevertheless the world owes the Christians all the nice things we have today, above all science and technology and personal freedom. Lets see, on the other hand, what is there to find in the islamic side of the world... hmmm... dictatorship?, ignorance?, terrorism?, women discrimination and beatings?, poverty? backwardness? you name it
Come on, someone tell some jokes and stop this hostility. Get on with something productive and worthwhile. These threads can take hold of people and are totally pointless as the participants are not going to change their minds. This is my problem with all monotheist religions - they believe that their God will judge them in the afterlife so why are they so intent on judging everyone in the meantime?
Actually Christianity was a really violent religion at one point and it did hold back science for over a thousand years. Don't forget burning witches and also the crusades. The way I see it, all religions are poison. If you told someone the world was round back in the day... you would have probably been burned at the stake.