The ridiculous infraction system

I know the DP team is fairly good at programming. Why not rename it to something less harsh? If you just replaced each instance of "infraction" with "advisory" (or similar) you might soften the blow to people.

-Tony

 

i don't think it's nescessary. when i make a sum mistake in my maths my teacher gives me a red cross immediately. it's a big blow to some of us, having to see those red cross saying "you're imperfect and WRONG".

it's better than being expelled from that class though. hope you get my drift.

 

I like that Tony; has a "kinder, gentler" feel to it

 

I think members understand the system but DO NOT appreciate the implementation. It is nothing wrong with giving infractions when members do something wrong such as posting the same post in different section to spam or using the PM system for spam or advertising in wrong section but when mods start to give infraction for the content of a post then it is censor.

This is a forum and the point of a forum is to discuss and even argue when people do not agree. It is wrong when the mods try to control the discussion and decide the outcome by giving infractions or closing the threads.
If there is a discussion, obviously it is relevant for those who participate or otherwise they wouldn't. What differentiated DP from other webmaster forums was the open and censor free environment and in my opinion it was a big part of it's success, without it DP will be reduced to just another dime a dozen forum.

It will be wrong to forget that it is the members who actively participate in a forum who make it a forum and not a vBulletin license. I am already considering to quit posting if this situation continues and I know many other very active members who are thinking the same. In a wise words of credit card company:

Price of vBulletin license, couple of hundred dollars, active members, priceless.

 

When we give infractions for what we think is an inappropriate post, bad language, an attack or whatever we actually leave the post as is so your whole censoring argument isn't even valid. You get a mild 'slap on the fingers' for having typed that post but almost always (spam pretty much only exception) the post stays exactly as it is.

Hardly anything gets censored and you can say what you want. You just have to live with the small consequence of an infraction for your actions.

Threads hardly ever get closed, only those that really get out of hand, where the flaming takes over persistently. If all involved just remembered the whole world, with hundreds of different cultures - some not as liberal as your own - are reading what you type, you'll understand why we sometimes have to resort to shutting the shit down.

 

Since 10 infraction points will result in users ban, it is effectively a form of censor since people who dare to speak their mind, sooner or later will be banned unless they "voluntarily" start censoring themselves.

To give example of thread that got closed for no apperent reason:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=99128

 

Following your definition of censorship, it would mean that censorship is easily avoided by adopting a style of posting that you full well know falls within acceptable margins. You can still bash members, DMOZ and other topics by using appropirate language. There's nothing wrong with expressing your thoughts, just do so in a manner that isn't offense, and don't judge just by your own standards.

Regarding that example thread, I guess you'll just have to accept that we won't ever be able to please all members.

 

Since you posted in that thread about hijacking the thread, I have already posted an answer in the same thread and asked why do you consider my post hijacking the thread since it was exactly about the subject of the discussion.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=1145730&postcount=20

The infractions should be for doing something wrong and not because users and mods have a difference of opinion about what the subject of a discussion is.

 

Here is the post that I got 2 infractions points for attacking other members, it is even more interesting that it was posted in May 3rd (which I think it is before introducing infraction system) and I got infraction in July 17th or more than 2 months later.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=865160&postcount=44

is it possible to be more diplomatic than that?

There is no need to please anyone, the aim of mods should be to enforce the organizational aspect of the forum and not to direct or influence the discussions. The threads will end without the help of mods when there is no active interest in the continuation of the discussion.

 

Our moderation actions are roughly 50% based on reported posts, we often get posts reported that inititally 'slipped through' - when brought to our attention we still deal with it - no matter how old.

I personally (read: not in a mod capacity) have no issue with that post you linked to. From a moderator perspective, when it gets reported as offensive by enough people, it can still be deemed inappropriate, regardless of what we think of it personally. And that also proves the democratic nature of a lot of our actions, not as you suggest, our personal dictatorship-like actions.

So to sum it up, while we sometimes personally don't mind a post, we can still issue an infraction based on enough complaints. And don't think we hand them out willy-nilly. It doesn't take just one n00b's report to give an infractions to an established member.

 

Hmm. Well, I'm not sure that DP's implementation of infractions is very good -- it's sort of a "bull in a china shop" approach. So please don't think I'm trying to be a fanboy. But I must say that your idea of what "the aim of mods should be" is not at all in line with anything I've ever heard. It sounds like you want to define the role of a mod in ways that are convenient for you, when in fact the owner of DP gets to define their job responsibilities in ways that are convenient for him.

I might object to some of those job expectations (flagging a user for a post in the wrong forum? Silly.) but I do not imagine I can redefine their job description. That's overreaching.

-Tony

 

Infraction system is good but some mods start thinking there a god or something and everyone else is under them. And other mods see something that should be a warning or a kind PM but see its not someone that people with "high rep" respect and give infraction. Then when its someone with high rep or lots of posts all of a sudden a simple kind PM does the job..

Thats the thing would you say someone like me is an "establighed member"? Even though I have over 1k posts and been regged ssince october 05'. Probably not because either not high repped or people you repsect personally or have high rep just does not like me for example. Thats what gives some of these members such a big ego.

 

Well then dont PM actually give them a warning. Putting a thread in a wrong forum if thats not a warning then just throw off warning infractions because you hardly ever use it if the person does not have thousands of post and big rep.

And that just shows the mod had no intention of ever giving that person an infraction anyway.

 

Just to be clear - Im not hijacking this thread!!!!

I am writing an article about the infraction system. I started a thread asking questions. IF you received an infraction, please consider responding.

What do you think about the new Infraction System?

 

What I am concerned with is actually what is good for DP and what differentiates it from other webmaster forums and not what is good for me. In my opinion, the interesting thing about this forum is censor free environment which makes it possible for people who are involved in IT industry but also have other interests to discuss different subjects.
Let's be honest about this whole thing, I think DP is a great forum but for someone who is interested in programming then sitepoint offers much better information. If you like to do business and buy and sell sites then dnforum is a much better choice. If the present infraction system succeed in destroying what is unique about DP then what are you left with? A vBuelltin license and another dime a dozen webmaster forum.