I find the concept of evolution through mutation to be a simple one and am wondering, well, what's not to get? I've seen discussions where the subject of how diseases and microbes mutate came up and it was dismissed. It's even been said that single cell organism mutations are hardly comparable to the evolution of a full animal species. Finally the biggest argument against evolution being the inevitable and unguided conclusion to mutation is that there has to be some intelligence guiding evolution. Some sort of programming that tells species they have to mutate into this or that. I think those are fair points, but.... For one, I don't think the mutation of single cell organisms is meant to be AH HA proof that evolution takes place. But just to establish a base understanding that mutation is a fact. It does happen. Also, the idea that there may be an "intelligence" guiding mutation is to me, not likely..... I submit to you this.... the way evolution works is that over vast oceans of time mutations occur. Mutations that wind up being beneficial to the species are more likely to get passed on in genetic code. Without intelligent guidance, just simple logic working itself out to an end. Creatures that are born with a funny tail mutation (we call prehensile tails) and take to the trees are less likely to get eaten by predators on the ground. They pass those genes on and more monkeys are born with the funny tail. That process can give rise to new species of a given animal or even, given enough time, a completely new organism. The Lemurs isolated on Madagascar are a perfect example. They evolved (and are still evolving) into multiple new species. I guess that was a long winded way of asking a simple question. Do you agree that evolution is simply mutation over time?
Mutation means changes in the genetic information inside DNA and chromosomes. It could be the most likely cause of evolution. Natural selection is a process that is not fully understood. But I'm sure it plays its part in the overall process. Perfectly good species of plants and animals go extinct all the time. It could be due to a multitude of reasons. We all believe that life evolved from single-celled microbes and it steadily got more complex. It probably did get complex, but it was not a linear process. Animals keep adapting wherever they live. Maybe thats mutation.
Of course, the thing to remember though is that the majority of mutations aren't beneficial to survival. This is where natural selection kicks in and why it takes so long to see differentiation within a species. Some virii can also transfer genetic material to a host: Similarly, some viral diseases are lethal and others might confer marginal survival benefits to the host. One of the most widespread viral infections is Herpes - but the good news is the virus can protect people from deadly bacterial infections like Bubonic plague. Helping the host survive helps the virus spread, its symbiotic evolution at its finest. Over generations, the virus will even adapt to help the host or else it just kills that which it needs to "live."
In this context, I've had a layman's interest in paleo-geology, how certain population pools have been naturally encouraged to coalesce, with recessive gene expression and mutations leading to punctuational evolutionary bursts. Interesting stuff.
Thanks everyone for pointing out the term I was trying to get at (natural selection). The general consensus here is correct IMO. Mutations are "mistakes". Errors that occur while the genetic code is being written during cell copying as an organism is growing in the womb or egg. The good ones survive through natural selection because they end up being beneficial and aid in the survival of that animal and get passed on as a new genetic makeup. The bad ones, not so much.... I posted this in hopes that those who reject evolution would speak up and explain to us why this is all nonsense. Unfortunately I fear that like my last thread about God and his incredible shrinking power, that won't happen. Again...
there is not much point in arguing about this with them as they will never give you a scientific reason why evolution doesn't happen. All they say always revolve around the argument for personal incredulity ("I can't imagine how that could have happened so it can't be true") but are ultimately religious. Actually you'll never find an evolution denier who is not religious
Oh for the love of Cthulu... Mutation is a process of evolutionary change. Lets say you have chickens with normal beaks. One of them has a mutated beak that lets them get worms more efficiently. Their offspring are a 50/50 mix. This mutation is successful, and improves survival. Thus those 50% with it survive longer, and have more offspring. Eventually this change becomes standard. Thus, this mutation, with the influence of natural selection - being that they are naturally more adept at getting the worm - is now passed on in the majority. That is evolution. If a bacteria is stronger than the rest and survives penicillin, it multiplies, while the rest die. This mutation allows it to be fitter and better. Thus, this bacteria becomes stronger, and although it is not natural selection it is evolution. MSRA is an evolved strain of Staph. It is stronger, better, and hardier in the face of medical technology. This is selection based on our own actions, yes, but it is evolution. Unsuccessful mutations do happen, but they usually are passed on in a limited number, or not at all. Take the Dodo. For its time its mutations were beneficial. However introduce a new pressure and a lack of mutation or adaptation... and you have extinction. If fish of a certain species had a mutation where its mucus secretions were toxic, and became fatal to humans, those fish would likely start to beat out the others, and that mutation would save them from being fished to extinction. That would be a mutation, and by its success, evolution. However, man moves too fast, lives too short, and sees in such a limited way that evolutionary trends around them are almost un-noticeable. Also our changes to the environment are happening so quickly that we're literally fucking it all up. Its no longer natural selection - it's "survive the humans selection". Hence, deadlier bacteria, stronger viruses, and better parasites. If your god exists - he hates you, and is making better bacteria to kill you, because you are a failed genetic experiment.
I see you've completely given up trying to have rational discussions and have voluntarily degraded yourself to comic relief. You got tired of being mocked for making stupid posts didn't you? (ever find that birth certificate?) Sad part is, no one actually thinks you're funny besides your small clique of followers I'm curious, how does it feel to be irrelevant?
That's not evolution, unless you consider it a political and non biological sort, in which he adapts to survive. However because he is not passing on this creed or genome to others, his mutations are not evolutionary or revolutionary but just bullinationary.
Barry Obama has never produced a vault copy of his original birth certifcate. The computer generated certificate that Obama has released is missing an attending physician and the address of the hospital. This is what an authentic Hawaiian birth certificate looks like Barry Obama produced a “CERTIFICATION OFF LIVE BIRTHâ€. What the difference? An Hawaiian birth certificate also includes: 1. No attending physician signature or license number 2. No address for the attending physician or hospital 3. No parent signature 4. No parent DOB or age of parent or parent place of birth. 5. Father’s race would not be “Africanâ€, that is country of origin. Race would be black or Negro (1960’s) 6. Was this a single birth or multiple birth. 7. No Registrars name or signature.
Is it too much for the President of the US to provide? #1. Name of attending physician #2. Address for the attending physician or hospital
Soon as you go back and ask every living former president to do so and make it mandatory that every President from now on pass the crazy tin foil hat wearers bogart the bogus test (no matter what they ask for). Until then, feel free to go dig up that other thread where we went over this so I can bury you with all the evidence and information I posted in there. I believe that was the thread where even you were fighting not to admit that you don't actually believe he's not a natural born citizen. Thanks for taking the bait bogus. I just wanted to remind people who you are so that when they see you posting around the boards they know not to take you seriously. Your hatred for Obama is so severe that you couldn't resist embarrassing yourself again.
How can you support Obama when he has broken so many promises he made when campaigning and has spent more than any other president already?