are you atheist or believer

atheists: those who believe in errors, they have no ability to believe in the Truth, it is beyound their comperhension.

That is the accurate definition.

They think they exist by chance, yet they are unable to believe that chances are made by the Highest (i.e. God).

No doubt, atheist will die and there is no chance for them to avoid death. Yet they are unable to believe this as a Godly Decree (eventhough it will be fulfilled whether they like it or not), because that is Above and beyound their comperhension.

Unless God provide you with Glory, you cannot find Him.

It is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah. He hath set uncleanness upon those who have no sense. (100)

 

Well I'd say I was an atheist until I started noticing spiritual things happening, I've seen some crazy stuff and I know that it isn't something that can just go by unexplained so I wouldn't say I believe in a god but definitely a 3rd world or dimension. I know there is a hell, there are demons. Angels are real, however Every religion is wrong and I see it as brainwashing non-sense. the fact that blowing yourself up and killing lots of believe isn't anything to do with a religion, its brain washing.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

That being said, I'm a believer to a certain extent

 

I take it you are talking about your particular god here and not any of the thousands of other gods people have made up over the years.

 

hmmm... 50/50.
I'm not really believer but i'm not that atheist too. i believe in high holidays only.

 

Of Course,

There is no god but Allah.

Beware ! To Allah belongeth whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth. Those who follow aught instead of Allah follow not partners (of Him). They follow only a conjecture, and they do but lie. (66)

 

Yeah the christians say something similar, so did the ancient Greeks and the hawaiians who believed in Pele the volcano goddess, and pretty much everyone else who believed in a made up invisible man in the sky. Nothing you say is original and nothing is unique to your particular religion.

What next? Rhetoric about disbelievers going to hell? Yawn. it's old stuff mate and it's all been said before. The funny things is, you expect me to take notice when you ignore it when christians say the very same thing.

Like has been said a million times; When you understand why you reject all other gods you will understand why i reject yours.

 

My answer is i am a believer. I believe there is God and there is Satan as well. Spirits etc

 

I can appreciate that you are frustrated, and are resorting to histrionics out of your frustration ("zealot," "evangelistic," "rabid," etc. I think you'd find we can discuss reasonably, without needing such stuff). To be honest, I'm not evangelistic in anything, except in my rejection of much of modernity.

I also wouldn't have expected it to be this difficult, and I know from your posts that you're an intelligent person, so I can only ascribe it to something else, truly.

I said it earlier, and I'll say it again, and hope this time we can move on? Again,

(1) An atheist is someone without a belief in deity.

(2) An atheist is also someone who denies the existence of deity. As such, this kind of atheist is religious in sentiment.

(3) An agnostic is someone who denies the ability to be certain of the existence or absence of deity. As such, this person does not have a belief in deity - or would you say they did have a belief in deity?

I used the word "intersection" to describe the logical overlap between (1) and (3).

"Intersection" means a common meeting ground - not an exhaustion of all that both members of the equation are. I am both a man, and an American. My wife is a female, and an American. The overlap is that we are both Americans. By your logic, you would have us not be both Americans, simply because we are of different gender.

Obviously, (2) and (3) cannot exist in the same logical universe. And I wouldn't think anyone here would say they would. This is elementary.

 

You are comparing those who worship the creatures to us who worship the Creator.

Your confusion doesn't alter my religion.

Still less can their knowledge comprehend the Hereafter: nay, they, are in doubt and uncertainty thereanent; nay, they are blind thereunto! (66)

The Unbelievers say: "What! when we become dust― we and our fathers--shall we really be raised (from the dead)? (67)

"Verily, we were promised this we and our fathers before (us): these are nothing but tales of the ancients." (68)

Say: "Go ye through the earth and see what has been the end of the criminals" (69)

But grieve not over them (O Mohammad PBUH), nor distress thyself because of their plots. (70)

They also say: "When will this promise (come to pass)? (Say) if ye are truthful." (71)

Say: "It may be that some of the events which ye wish to hasten on may be (close) in your pursuit!" (72)

But verily thy Lord is full of grace to mankind: yet most of them are ungrateful. (73)

Show us an example, please.

I understand why I reject the idols and the fictions, and I did explain why you don't believe in my God.

Belief in Allah is too High for atheists to reach.

62. That is because Allâh is the Truth, and what they invoke besides Him is the falsehood, And verily, Allâh is the High, the Great.

 

You are missing the point (big surprise there). The claims made by your particular religion differ very slightly, if at all, from all of the other claims other religious people have made up. Your threats of eternal torture, your claims to higher knowledge, it's all been done before by countless people trying to sell a variety of different cults. You are no different to them except for the fact that you happen to have been raised in an area which has a tradition of believing one of them instead of the others.

Quoting the quran to me means as little as quoting the Vida's would to you.

It exposes the logic of the religious when they say things that are essentially "my religion is right! it says so in the book that accompanies it!"

 

It seems we are making progress here. We both agree that the more commonly accepted definition of Atheist is contrary to the definition of Agnostic. We both agree that the lessor accepted definition number 1 of Atheist does not contradict the word Agnostic. In fact we both agree that Agnostics do not have belief in a deity.

It seems the only place I take issue with definition 1 being applied to Agnostics is that it is not defining. Agnostics do not have belief in Deity because they believe we do not know whether god exists or not. It is a more complete and qualified definition which applies specifically to agnostics and is not part of the definition of Atheist. It is defining.

If one were to define something that is the color blue as something that reflects the blue wavelength of the visible spectrum of light, and something that is the color white as something that reflects all wavelengths of the visible spectrum of light, it would be difficult to argue that something that is white does not reflect the blue wavelength. It does not, of course, make something that is blue the same color as something that is white. I suppose one could allege that blue since both blue and white reflect the blue wavelength although white reflects other wavelengths as well, though I consider that argument bogus as well since from a cognitive standpoint, they are obviously different in color.

Your "intersection" analogy describes two different attributes of a person, one being gender, one being nationality, and therefore falls apart in application to the discussion of this topic, which is specifically belief system as it pertains to god.

 

WOW I am impressed! An articulate answer and one with which I agree!

 

We both agree that there are two definitions for atheism, in most dictionaries, and apparently your preferred definition is more common in North America.

I agree - though this wasn't the point I was making. I have simply said that in their mutual lack of belief in a deity, there is a logical overlap between atheists (who lack belief) and agnostics. It no more covers the panoply of what "atheism" means or "agnostic" means than a single word can cover the infinite variations intrinsic to any human being.

I think that in a way, you've made Stox's point (in this regard) for him. Your description above poses blue as a subset of white in the visible color spectra, which relates to Stox's statement, that agnostics are a subset of atheists. But I agree with you that the word "agnostic" and "atheist" are not equivalents, for reasons we've both expressed many times - it's also true that we'd have to say, "only some atheists," and "in only the matter of a lack of faith" of both. I can't answer for him, and perhaps I've missed it if you've asked, but I would venture he'd agree with you - the two words aren't "equivalent," just both "types" of people share a lack of belief in deity.

This doesn't make sense to me. You've said the analogy falls apart, but provided no reason why - except to say we're talking about two different things; which is the point, very often, of an analogy.

Using your own example, you've used the visible color spectra as an analogy. Your analogy "describes two attributes of wavelengths within the visible color spectra, one being blue, one being white, and therefore falls apart in application to the discussion of this topic, which is specifically belief system as it pertains to god."

At any rate, obamanation, as much as it may seem like it, I'm not really a fan of these kinds of discussions, and am really no evangelist for anything except a romanticist's call to arms, and even then I prefer to do it artfully, and not in polemic or vitriol (I prefer; I don't always succeed).

I am quite content to live with the notion that we're alone, we're all we have, and the only marvel is nature; in my book, that makes me an atheist, but one without any need to preach. Peace.

 

Me an Atheistic

 

It sounded interesting for myself:
"
Yahoo atheist named "Jefferson S" :

I paid my dues by studying under a German existentialist philosopher. My challenge to her: Convert me back to atheism or I'll be a follower of Jesus Christ all my life. After studying the great atheists over the past four centuries, I came to some amazing conclusions. They could write brilliantly about any subject under the sun except God, the Bible, and Christianity. Even those who wrote great textbooks on logic couldn't piece together a logical essay against God's existence.
"
When he decided to believe God has appeared for him and wanted to be a follower of Jesus(pbuh), he faced his (atheists family) had a religion with hard and fast rule . He called this religion atheism and the rule was you couldn't follow Jesus(pbuh) (in general you couldn't follow God)

Yahoo Atheist Claims God Has Disappeared

If something is not proven and we still believe in it , we call it some kind of believe system( so atheists are believers too, but to another religion )

 

Well who can argue with that. Its actually quite respectable. I consider myself a socialist, not a communist, but I wouldn't normally take offense to someone calling me a communist. If Joseph Stalin were still alive however, and insisted that I was a communist because of communism's shared beliefs with socialism, I would probably take offense and argue the point, just because I wouldn't want a mass murderer trying to tell me I think just like him. I personally find bigots and mass murderers distasteful, maybe its just me .

Perhaps "falls apart" is the wrong phrase to use. Inapplicable may be more appropriate. My point was your analogy described two separate attributes of a person: Gender and Nationality. With these words Atheist and Agnostic, we are trying to describe one thing and one thing only: belief system as it pertains to god. If we are talking about color and only color, something could be either blue, or white, not both, regardless of the fact white also reflects the blue wavelength. Yes I realize something could be part blue and part white, but the fact remains that the blue parts are blue and the white parts are white.

 

Atheist and PROUD of it!
lad to see that the pole in in favor of atheism
Too bad were only a small %

 

I am as strict an atheist as you can get.

 

I'm a Jackuultheist. No other Gods before myself. Etc etc.

It's a joke, really... although for me, I am all I need.

Face the facts folks, there's nothing out there. You only have yourself - everything outside of you is what you perceive. If you hear voices, and its not your internal monologue or your memories... and it is telling you to do something... that's not a good thing.

 

I am a strong atheist no-one can convince me that some fictional Characters that were written about in a book by people that were high on Opium created the universe.