President G W Bush, The Decider: The more he decides the worse things get

Gtech, I really enjoyed your well-reasoned and thought out reply to EarlPearls ridiculous post. Thank you for putting in the time and effort to help shoot down popular fantasies.

 

Thank you Joel.

 

I second your comments Joel. Great posts by both of you!

 

Who is that supposed to be? Al Frankin and Hanoi Jane?

 

I thought you would get kick out of it

 

Did it hurt?

 

I second that one, lots of work for GTech too

 

blah blah blah...
So whats all this going back and forth?
It seems to me that you can take either side of the argument and make a reasonable point. What does all this prove?
Everyone's life is diffrent,everyone is either more happy than they were pre-Bush or thier not. But for me I take responsiability for my life. Let's stop blaming gov. officials for our lives and short commings. You make u're own breaks, put u're self in a good spot and good things will follow.

 

From Drudge:

Looks like Joe Wilson outed his own wife.

 

That is so funny..I love that cartoon...where can I get more like it???

 

http://www.workingforchange.com/column_lst.cfm?AuthrId=43



They are pretty good cartoons,

 

Just search for "ferret77" and you will find them in just about every post.

 

I've been busy.

This citation and comment by GTech;

This is a total distortion and rearranging of what Bob Novak wrote. The comment by GTech that Joe Wilson outed his own wife is further distortion of what happened.

Why are you trying to sell a story and not TELL what actually happened:

You can find what Robert Novak wrote...In his own words here;

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15988

In an 18 paragraph review of events Novak describes the sequence of events, the legal interaction, references his attorneys, reveals some of their advice to him regarding the issues, references his testimony etc.

In paragraph 4 he states:

So there it is...2 senior Bush administration officials and an unspecified CIA source....were the ones who identified, or pointed out that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.

Here are the sources, again in his own words

Harlow and Rove's attorney's spoke to the conversations between their clients' and Novak although describing it in terms different than those Novak recalled:

Harlow and Rove identified Wilson's wife as an employee of the CIA...to a reporter...no less.

Is it not clear that administration sources revealed that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and wanted it published?

Finally in the 2nd to last paragraph Novak states that he found the name of Wilson's wife by going to Who's Who in America

To remind one and all. Two administration officials and a member of the CIA identified that Joe Wilson's wife was a member of the CIA. They told a reporter this information. That is equivalent to announcing her secret identity to the world.

They created a story that she was responsable for sending Wilson to check on the purported sale of equipment that would aid in the development of nuclear weapons.

Wilson went to Niger and reported back that he found no evidence of the sale. The administration disregarded his reports and used this as part of the evidence that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons.

After Wilson wrote an op-ed editorial refuting the argument the administration concocted this story blaming Wilson's wife.

In doing so they revealed the identity of a person with a secret identity. That person was working on behalf of the United States.

The US has had a law against revealing the identity of secret agents since 1947. Ronald Reagon signed updated legislation in 1982 to further protect secret agents.

When senior administration officials reveal the identity of a secret agent it would seem to break the law.

When they do it because they are "pissed off" because someone is disagreeing with their policy...not only is that breaking the law but it seems to be an example of treasonous action...solely to try and SELL a version of history....Not TELL history.

GTech: You and the administration ought to go to Hollywood. There is a lot of money in making up fantasy!!!

 

Apparently taking a course in writing fiction

Incorrect, I sourced the Drudge report exactly as it was noted on their site. To suggest that I wrote what the Drudge Report wrote is misleading, and inaccurate, as usual. The only comment I made was"Looks like Joe Wilson outed his own wife." Which was, and still is accurate.

Where was it, again? This is an absolute complete distortion of what Novak said. In fact, what you are suggesting througout your comments is just simply not factual at all. Novak called Rove AND Harlow. They were sought out and contacted by Novak. Novak already knew of Plame and found out, of ALL things, by the careless and reckless actions of Joe Wilson by PAYING a source to publish information about Wilson, who listed his wife's name there.

Novak noted that HE mentioned Plame's name and CIA affiliation to Rove and Harlow. Not the way your fairy tale is written. And think about it EarlPearl...if what you were saying had any truth to it, Rove and Harlow would be indicted right now. As it stands, what you are suggesting is inaccurate which is exactly why they are not indicted. Novak already knew, Novak informed these two people, they did not inform him.

Incorrect, Novak identified Wilson's wife to Harlow and Rove. Wilson outed his own wife by publishing her name in a journal and paid to do so, no less. It has been acknowledged many times that everyone in "Washington circles" knew Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and Wilson outed her by paying to publish self-serving kudos about himself and listed his wife's name.

Is it clear? Ask Novak himself! He's also said in an interview that he saw absolutely no indication that administration officials were trying to run any type of campaign against Wilson/Plame. Why on earth would you even want to fabricate such a delusion, turn Novak's words around 100%, knowing that Novak said he didn't see any sign of a plot to out Wilson/Plame, then suggest "Is it not clear that administration sources revealed that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and wanted it published?"

The old liberal mantra: if you repeat a lie enough, some people will buy into it. This just won't happen here though, EarlPearl. Novak revealed to Rove and Harlow that Plame was Wilson's wife. Hence the "Yes, I've heard that too." I'm simply shocked at these poor and blatantly false fabrications. It validates and sends the message of "facts don't matter, only the message does."

Apparently you have indepth knowledge and experience in this field to recommend it. What a sad and shameful delusion!

From the article you source (I watched Novak's interview with Brit Hume live, BTW)

As I stated in the original post: "Looks like Joe Wilson outed his own wife."

And Novak confirms this.

 

People should read what we wrote.

I noted and cited what Drudge wrote. What he wrote was a distortion of Novak's own writings. You copied what Drudge wrote. You suggested that Wilson "outed his wife"

In Novak's own writings he cites 3 sources of the information that Wilson's wife was a CIA employee; 2 senior administration officials and one as yet unidentified government official.

Subsequently Novak found out her name by reading Who's who in America.

By the way...the Who's Who biography is a brief write up on a person referencing his career, family, etc. Wilson's wife's name is there as well as his children, where he got his degree, the name of his first wife, and a chronology of his career.

Per Novak 2 senior administration officials told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. The 3rd person who acknowledged this was a CIA employee whose identity has not been revealed.

It is against the law to reveal the identity of a secret agent working on behalf of the United States.

Whether they called him or he called them and they confirmed this is irrelevant. Isn't it wierd that 3 high ups are spending their time finding out and spreading information about the wife of a person who disagrees with the administration.

Isn't it worse that the information they are spreading violates a law that was established to protect the best interests of the US.

People should read what Novak himself wrote.

Any subsequent comments such as those by Drudge or your suggestion simply twists and distorts what Novak himself finally acknowledged in his writings.

 

Indeed, I submit rereading what you wrote as well. You nailed me for what Drudge wrote, though it isn't inaccurate. It is true I suggested that Wilson outted his wife, after Novak made it clear where he learned her name from. Accurate again.

Incorrect again. Even when lies are corrected, they are repeated. I can't even fathom someone doing this so beligerantly! In Novak's own words, he learned her name from Who's Who. In Novak's own words, HE contacted Rove and Harlow on his own. Novak informed both men of Plame's identify, not the other way around. What you are suggesting is, if Novak informed others, besides Harlow and Rove (say like Nancy Pelosi), then Nancy would be guilty of hearing what Novak told her. Such blatant disregard for the truth!

That is incorrect as well. Novak informed both men of her identify. They did not inform Novak of her identify. He learned of her identify in Who's Who first.

I'm aware of what it is and that Wilson outted his wife by paying them to publish his words.

Another lie. Per Novak, he learned her identify from Who's Who and he informed Rove and Harlow of her identify.

It should be against the law to lie about another man's words too

Novak informed Harlow and Rove. If you wish to continue lying about it, more power to you, but that is what happened. Joe Wilson should should be indicted for outting his own wife.

This isn't about moral equivalence, nor is anything you've said correct. Novak himself said he saw no signs of an effort to go against Wilson/Plame. I watched the interview live.

Incorrect. You've also failed miserably to even draw a connection to the fabricated truths you are putting forth.

This is really sad, EarlPearl. I've never seen blind hatred so hard at work! What a shame

 

While I'm primarily too busy to get involved in this I couldn't let this lie unanswered.

The simple fact is that GTech's entire proposition on this Novak thing is 100% absurd.

If Joe Wilson had truly "outed his wife" as suggested by GTech then Novak would have to be the world's biggest idiot.

He wouldn't have been subpeoned. He wouldn't have had to spend a lot of money to hire an expensive attorney, he wouldn't have kept his mouth shut on the issue for 2 years, he wouldn't have subjected himself to ridicule and questioning over the two year period while other reporters were threatened with jail time and one in fact spent time in jail.

What you suggest is preposterous...or simply a crazy reworking of history to try and twist and resell what actually happened.

Cheers ,

Dave

 

There's always "what ifs" and "I believe." I prefer to work with the facts. As clearly demonstrated, the "facts" you presented had no factual basis what-so-ever and were simply made up based upon a reality you wished had happened. Wilson should have known better than to list his wife's name in a paid publication to heap kudos on him. People in Washington knew his wife worked for the CIA.

Novak said it best, in his own words:

'I learned Valerie Plame's name from Joe Wilson's entry in 'Who's Who in America'

There's no clearer reality then that. How much clearer could it be?

Unfortunately, BDS is in overdrive. Despite Novak saying where he learned her name from, it seems someone wants to ignore the truth and convict the Bush Administration for a mistake that Joe Wilson made himself. In fact, Novak also admits that HE CALLED two officials and that HE NOTIFIED the officials of Plame's identify. So in addition to blaming Wilson's lack of responsibility on the Bush Administration, you now want to convict anyone that a reporter INFORMS a CIA identity to. Using said logic, if Novak had called EarlPearl and said "Valerie Plame is Joe Wilson's wife who is a CIA agent," then EarlPearl would want to convict himself of hearing what Novak said.

Altered reality at it's finest. Surely there is a cure for Bush Derangement Syndrome!

 

having seen where Gtech defended me elsewhere, while acknowledging me as one of the people who has tended to attack Bush more in this forum....I'll be easy on this little debate about Novak and Plame and her husband and who revealed the identities of CIA spies.

GTech, you are way off on this one. Find another point to debate!!!


But getting back to George Bush, The decider....when it comes to knowing who your real enemies are....I'm gonna side with Bush before I side with the terrorists any day of the week.

Gotta know who your real enemies are. For instance take Al-Queda. With the guy who just got killed in Iraq...the guy who was the Iraq Al-Queda guy...while he was there he was leading the attack against Shiite muslims. Al-Queda is a sunni muslim group.

Now that the Hezbollah are attacking Israel Al-Queda just came out against Israel, the West (and anyone in the world who is not a muslim) and is in agreement with these hezbollah shiites.

Likewise, if its terrorists or George W Bush...well he and I are best buddies and allies!