http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/18/health/research/18faith.html ok, a few questions. 1. Why would religious people want to circumnavigate this "plan" of gods? 2. Why don't they want to go to heaven? of course, the obvious answer is that they are religious because of a fear of dying, so when the time times they get really scared and cling on to every last second of the life they know is coming to an end, regardless of the pain it causes. But i'm sure the religious on the forum can manufacture some contrived ad hoc rationalisations as to why they aren't too keen on going to heaven.
Perhaps you can explain how Islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers fit into your, "The religious are religious because they fear death" theory. I don't mean to be rude, but are you a racist? Your argument looks very similar to other racist arguments based on generalizations, such as the idea that Mexicans are lazy, or African Americans are unintelligent, or that Orientals cant drive.
Explain what part of my post applies to race. suicide bombers are mentally ill and have been subjected to prolonged brainwashing. It would be hard to rationalise anything they do. The scientific study didn't go into suicide bombings, just palliative care for cancer sufferers and the connection religiosity had with the desire to stay alive in spite of the prolonged suffering, indignity and the anguish it causes to loved ones. Seems a strange thing for someone to do considering they are supposed to believe in an afterlife of eternal bliss and a "divine plan", don't you think? Feel free to once again ignore everything i have said and go off making unfounded accusations and irrellivant points.... it's what we have come to expect from the "believers" who get argued into a corner.
Agreed. It is strange. But you are the one who made the leap from the study to the conclusion that the religious are religious because they fear death, even though suicide bombers contradict that conclusion. To you the answer was "Obvious". If you have ever read the book "The Bell Curve", you'll find African Americans tested lower on almost every standardized test and therefore IQ scores than other races. The studies were scientific. It was the racists who leaped to the conclusion that those differences in scores meant that Blacks were less intelligent. So I ask you again, are you a racist?
Obamanation, you are an insult to anything liberal. It is not racist to say that african americans are unintelligent if the data supports it, and of course it is not true to say that all african americans are unintelligent
I used the study to draw the conclusion that they don't believe in an afterlife or a divine plan, In other words, they aren't "believers" after all when it comes down to it. The claim that they are afraid of death was an inference (look it up) of my own based on cumulative data and experiences, which included this particular study, you know, the study where they were proven to be the group most likely to cling on to life despite it causing them and their families physical and emotional suffering. They certainly don't sound like people looking forward to the "other side", In fact, When compared to nonbelievers, they seem utterly terrified of what may happen when they die. So much for the belief in "heaven". I ask you again, where did i mention race in this thread? It has nothing to do with race and nothing to do with any flawed conclusions racists may have drawn from a study decades ago. it's just your dishonest attempt, in lou of being able to debate me logically and rationally on this subject, at a poorly executed ad hominem. is your point really that my conclusion on this study is wrong because at some point in the past some racists were also wrong with the conclusions they drew from an entirely different study?
Insult? I am the most Liberal one here!! I both invented and define the word Liberal! I spent most of last year doing volunteer work for Acorn, convincing people to vote for Obama with YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS!!! Please, I don't get insulted easily, but when people try to accuse me of being a lightweight liberal, it really gets my dander up! You've obviously missed the point of my post. While the data may indicate that it is a possibility, that does not mean it is a fact. To leap to the conclusion and call it fact is, in fact, racist. There are many other viable answers. For instance, the determination of IQ based on standardized tests at any stage of life, other than early childhood, is a damn crappy way to determine IQ and likely meaningless. As applied to Religion, perhaps the religious have a more rich and fulfilling life and therefore more reason to live than the non-religious who are more often sticking a gun in their mouth. Or that conclusion could also be complete crap. The point is, stOx willingness to jump to a conclusion and subtly imply mental weakness amongst a group of people based on their choice in religion is every bit as abhorent to American values as people who make similar implications based on race.
If you're the definition of liberal, then I'll be a radical, a reactionary, a conservative, or a moderated before voting democrat. Of course this becomes moot because it seems like he's just a troll. Then again, Tom Kalbfus is more or less for real. Ugh- I hate bipartisan politics.
You prefer partisan politics? And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Not surprisingly, David Duke felt the conclusions reached by the KKK in regard to the Bell Curve were valid as well! Didn't make them any less racist or repugnant. I suspect most of the would sleep easier if you would take your oppressive neo-con agenda and keep it to yourself so the gay, lesbian, racial minority, and religious groups in America could just live their lives how they want without constantly being slandered by people like you.
Well i'm sure you'd love nothing more than the religious being able to get away with continued hypocrisy, but that isn't going to happen. i will highlight it wherever and whenever i find it. sorry if you find reality uncomfortable, but we aren't about to pretend it doesn't exist on the grounds that you don't like it.
Yeh I know. You probably refer to people of other races by racial nicknames and say, "Hey, you call each other that so its hypocritical for you to ask me not to use those same racial slurs. I'm just calling out hypocrisy". It doesn't make me uncomfortable, and I have to acknowledge bigotry exists and you are a bigot, but it does make me question your intelligence.
no need to throw your toys out the pram just because you got schooled. see, this is typically what religious people do. they state something, and when it isn't immediately accepted without question they trow a tantrum. Anyone even glancing through this thread will see that i have continuously shown my logical workings and you have failed to refute a single thing i have said, you have failed to refute a single thing from the study and you have continuously swerved off-topic with your ludicrous comparison to this study and the KKK in the hope that we will stop talking about it. this isn't church, we will disagree with you, we will prove you wrong and we won't feel bad about doing it. Welcome to DP P&R! You may have noticed very few religious people enter threads where the atheists are making a point. They have learned their lesson and you will too, eventually
I think christians are afraid of dying not because they don't want to go to heaven, but because they are afraid of going to hell. When you're a child and you're being taught about the concept of hell and who really gets to NOT GO to hell, you begin to understand that a lot of people you know and animals are most likely not going to go to heaven, and then you start to be afraid about your own fate. Then you kind of integrate this into your life, but when time to die approach, the old fears begin to worry you again, and you're not sure, because there's judgement day, and you're not so sure afterall... All this useless fear could be avoided if religion education was outlawed as child abuse, just like smoking, alcool, driving, having sex, voting and so much more... But it's not likely to happen anytime soon, the society is hypocrit about religion, and doesn't want to clearly identify it as pure bullshit from which children should be protected against..
Actually, I would prefer like a 20+ party system in which none had a sizeable advantage. This way you wouldn't have to chose between 2 parties, or else effectively waste your vote, even if you most likely probably disagree with on many issues. I disagree with both the GOP and the Democrats. BOTH are wrong. My political position is 100% in support of science and education. DO NOT **** WITH SCIENCE.
I wonder if you realize, Obamanation, that you just drove a staunch liberal out of your camp. Don't be cheering, conservatives. You're just as bad. But really, it isn't racism if that's what unbiased (for example, the multitude of studies showing this) studies show. I never have, and never will, say that african americans are inferior. Humans are not ultimately separated by race, but by ability. This is an individual quality.
No, i'm right and you are wrong because i have provided the evidence and you have done nothing but post ludicrous ad hominem attacks. No, the reluctance of the theists to participate in dialogue makes their belief demonstrably weak when under scrutiny. let me guess, you are a "christian"?
I think it somewhat ironic when Obamanation gets into arguments with ncz nate. A conservative atheist vs a liberal theist. Usually it's the other way around.