Somali Piracy - Causes and Consequences

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by browntwn, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. #1
    Somali Piracy - Causes and Consequences

    The ongoing Somali piracy problem in the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean raises a number of legal and military issues about how to deal with the problem. Dr. J. Peter Pham, director of the Nelson Institute for International and Public Affairs at James Madison University, spoke to VOA about the causes and consequences of Somali piracy.

    "Fundamentally, the piracy problem off the Somali coast arises out of the fundamental problem of statelessness on shore. There's not been an effective Somali government since 1991. So, without effective governing on shore you're going to have opportunities for criminals to engage in their enterprises with impunity," he says.

    However, Pham says that's just one part of the problem. "The ransoms being paid by the shipping companies are also part of the problem. On one hand, from a purely economic point of view, it makes a great deal of sense if you have a cargo ship that is worth at least $20 to $30 million, it stands to reason that paying them a million dollars to get it back is an economically rational decision. Unfortunately, what might be in the selfish, self-interest of a single shipping company contributes to a general climate where the price of ransoms are bid up and there's incentive for more people to get involved in this lawlessness," he says.

    A third component to the problem is the military response. Many nations, including the United States, have sent ships to the Gulf of Aden to protect shipping lanes.

    Pham says, "Although the military response has focused attention on the piracy issue, perversely, it's made the problem more complicated. The military escorts…have certainly greatly ameliorated the piracy challenge in the Gulf of Aden…. On the other hand, as a result of that, the pirates have adapted and now switched their operations to the Somali base in the western part of the Indian Ocean. And unfortunately, there you have a far larger area and it's impossible with the military and naval resources on hand to fully patrol that area. That's why when the Maersk Alabama was taken the nearest vessel, the USS Bainbridge, was several hundred miles away."

    In a sense, there's a historical link between the USS Bainbridge and the Maersk Alabama incident. "There's a great irony in the fact that the vessel, the USS Bainbridge, the destroyer on site, is the one it is. Commodore William Bainbridge was actually the hero of the two Barbary wars, along with Stephen Decatur. And something tells me that he's probably rolling in his grave at the thought that a US destroyer has four pirates on a dingy without fuel and we're going into the second day of this without any resolute action," he says.

    Asked if he sees a distinction between piracy and terrorism, he says, "I would argue…that piracy actually is…the original terrorism, the original crime against humanity because it's a crime ultimately against civilization. For centuries, international law actually described pirates as…enemies of the human race because they, in essence, rebelled against the international system and peaceful commerce. And certainly in the age in which we live today, the disruptive effect of even the small number of successful pirate hijackings is staggering."

    He says history shows that a military response can be successful, such as actions taken by the United States and other nations against pirates along the northern African coast in the two Barbary wars.

    "That, for 200 years, has been a deterrent factor. No US merchant ship has been successfully hijacked by pirates," he says. He adds, however, "This time around, if the pirates get away with having hijacked, even unsuccessfully, a US flag cargo ship, it sends a very strong signal of perhaps a lack of will, especially in the case of Somalia where we know where the pirates are. We even know where the leaders literally live because they've built huge mansions that were put up in the last 18 months because of the piracy ransoms and revenues they gained," he says.

    He says four UN Security Council resolutions and agreements with the interim Somali government allow the use of force. "If we don't root out these nests of piracy or at least send a very strong signal, we will end up telegraphing is a very strong signal of weakness," he says.

    Pham says that any military strikes against Somali pirates can be very selective, such as destroying the pirate mother ships that launch speedboats or destroying the mansions built by the pirate leaders. He says before the mansions are destroyed, a warning should be issued telling occupants to leave, as Israel does in the Gaza Strip.

    _______________________

    The world, or the US alone if necessary, needs to start taking serious action against these pirates. Bomb their homes, attack their ships, do not let piracy at sea pay. I am sure a plan is being developed, but why don't we just fire some sort of incapacitating gas and then have some Seals come and rescue the victims. Whether they capture, kill, or otherwise leave the pirates is of little concern to me.

    Why pirates are allowed to openly build mansions, etc., with their ill gotten loot is beyond me.
     
    browntwn, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  2. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #2
    Simple solution. Blow up Somalia. Problem solved. Next issue.
     
    Mia, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  3. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #3
    bomb em, sink em, ....blow em up. hurt em....and keep hurting them.
     
    earlpearl, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  4. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4
    Or we could just bow to them and let them keep doing it.
     
    Mia, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  5. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Hijack their ships and take them hostage.
     
    ncz_nate, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  6. LogicFlux

    LogicFlux Peon

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    #6
    May they all die of scurvy.
     
    LogicFlux, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  7. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #7
    What ships? These are skinny, malnourished, uneducated pygmies in dinghies. Any idiot with a rifle should be able to take them out before they even get near the vessel in the first place.
     
    Mia, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  8. Stormwire

    Stormwire Peon

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    #8
    Lol pirates. Yeh i agree with everyone else when you see them bomb them but not somalia itself.
     
    Stormwire, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  9. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #9
    Congratulations to the French for showing the right approach to take in dealing with the pirates. Here is a story from today:

    French navy frees hijacked yacht

    Morin said France would never give in to "blackmail" from Somali pirates [AFP]

    At least one hostage and two pirates have been killed after French naval forces stormed a yacht seized by pirates off the coast of Somalia, officials say.

    Three other suspected pirates were detained in the military operation on Friday aimed at freeing five hostages on the Tanit, a statement from the office of Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, said.


    "Today, threats were more precise, with the pirates refusing proposals and the Tanit moving toward the coast. An operation to free the hostages was decided," the statement said.

    "During the operation, a hostage was unfortunately killed," the statement said.

    Two couples and a three-year-old child were aboard the yacht when it was seized on April 4 as it headed for the Kenyan coast.

    The statement said the four other hostages, including the child, were "safe and sound".

    Hostage shot

    Al Jazeera's Estelle Youssouffa, reporting from Paris, said the hostage killed was Florent Lemacon, the owner of the boat and the father of the child.

    Lemacon had been in the cabin when the navy stormed the yacht and it was not clear if he was killed in the crossfire or deliberately shot by one of his captives.

    "The French military says it's launching an investigation to find out if the hostage has been killed by a pirate or French military," Youssouffa said.

    Herve Morin, France's defence minister, told a news conference on Friday that the operation came after the pirates rejected an offer to exchange a naval officer for the women and child on the boat.

    "We proposed all possible solutions to the pirates in order to retrieve our fellow citizens, including an exchange of the mother and the child for an officer, which was refused," he said.

    "Negotiations were leading nowhere, and the boat was approaching the coast."

    Attack ordered

    Morin said Sarkozy gave the order to attack.

    Ship owners have paid tens of millions of dollars in ransoms to pirates [GALLO/GETTY]
    Jean Louis Georgelin, French chief of defence staff, said: "At 3:30pm, we spotted three kidnappers on the boat deck and the order was given to neutralise them and at the same time to send a squad of eight navy riflemen.

    "They were on the Tanit 30 seconds later. Two on the front, two on the back and the rest in the middle. Two pirates were immediately killed, the third fell in the sea."

    France has taken a lead role in attempting to bring the piracy, which has been rampant in the busy shipping lanes of the coast of east Africa, under control.

    French forces have detained at least 60 suspected pirates since April 2008, taking several of them back to France to face possible trial.

    "France will never give into pirates' blackmail or to terrorism," Morin said.

    Boat released

    Meanwhile, the Norwegian-owned MT Bow Asir tanker was freed after its captors received a ransom payment of about $2.4m from the owners of the vessel, sources said.

    "The pirates on board the Norwegian ship took the ransom and now they are all in Haradheere with me," one pirate told the Reuters news agency by telephone.

    The 23,000-tonne chemical tanker's operator, Salhus Shipping AS, confirmed that the vessel was freed and the 27-member crew was unharmed but declined to say if it paid any ransom or give details about negotiations with the pirates.

    The ship and its crew were seized by pirates on March 26 about 400km east of the Somali coast.

    In an other incident, pirates threatened to kill the captain of a US cargo ship held hostage by four Somali pirates after he jumped in the water in an attempt to escape.

    Ransoms paid

    Dozens of ships seized by pirates in the Indian Ocean have been released after their owners have paid tens of millions of dollars in ransoms.

    Crispian Cuss, a security analyst, told Al Jazeera more attacks were expected.

    "As the weather gets better, we're going to see more pirate activity. The pirates operate in very low boats, so they need calm waters."

    Cuss said all kind of vessels, from small yachts to big cargo ships, could be targeted.

    "We may be seeing increased investment in piracy. They [the pirates] had such a good year last year. They got some great ransoms. They are getting bigger and faster vessels, and are also expanding their reach."

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2009/04/2009410195425987638.html
     
    browntwn, Apr 10, 2009 IP
  10. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #10
    Way to go seals. 3 shots, 3 head shots. Should have made it 4 and televised it. Way to go.
     
    Mia, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  11. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #11
    Wow. I was joking when I said to my lady that right wingers would suggest this as a solution. I should have known better...

    It's so sad that to me so many people in this country have so little respect for human life.
     
    Zibblu, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  12. Bushranger

    Bushranger Notable Member

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    #12
    To blow up a whole country for a few bad apples?
    No wonder people don't take yous seriously.

    If that was the rule the good ol' USA would have been taken out a long time ago.
     
    Bushranger, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  13. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #13
    Its the other way around man. These scum bags took people hostage, then took the captain after the crew started to fight back. They then proceeded to make demands and threatened to kill the captain when it was evident their demands would not be met.

    Its really hard to have respect for someone that does not respect human life. Its even harder to sit back and let someone that does not respect human life threaten human life or actually take a human life.

    I'm a bit concerned by your obvious lack of understanding for this particular situation. You do realize that these scumbags took an American ship and crew hostage, and then proceeded to try to kill the captain of that crew right? Am I getting through?

    Sheesh.. I've seen all kinds here, but you certainly take the cake.
     
    Mia, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  14. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #14
    Yes. I understand that and I support President Obama's strong action against the pirates that did that.

    The question is do you realize that this is just one group of people from an entire country that you just said we should indiscriminately bomb?

    Let me try to get you to understand how wrong that is with an example: If a group of 10 people from the United Kingdom went to Washington DC and set off some bombs near the White House do you think it would then make sense for the military to indiscriminately bomb the entire UK? After all, think of what "these scumbags" did?
     
    Zibblu, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  15. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #15
    No, you do not. And Obama had little if anything to do with this, outside of signing the final order to authorize force. Either way, it was going to happen.

    Unfortunately it's more than a select group. Its a mandate from an ungoverned nation that is controlled by that group. Killing that group is hardly indiscriminate.

    If that 10 people were deployed by tens of thousands of other people that did this on a continual basis 1000 times over, sure.

    You're not comparing apples to apples here. Ultimately what we have here is a typical group of misguided ingrates following the path of a false god and false religion. Couple that with an inability to appreciate human life, and well... here we are. Its more than a "group", and its hardly only 10 people.

    Nuke da bitches and be done with it.

    Next problem?
     
    Mia, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  16. Zibblu

    Zibblu Guest

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    #16
    Sorry it doesn't work that way. The right wingers were ready to lay the blame on Obama so now that things worked out (much to their chagrin) that means Obama gets the credit too. Perhaps a lesson is learned: Bet against President Obama at your own peril.

    ---

    As far as the rest of that insanity about nuking Somalia. Thank God you are not in power. That's all that needs to be said about that. That kind of thinking would have the entire world in ruin within days.
     
    Zibblu, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  17. ncz_nate

    ncz_nate Well-Known Member

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    #17
    Somalia does strike me as the shit stain of the Earth.. I don't know about nuking them though.

    I've heard the best remedy for pirates is ninjas.
     
    ncz_nate, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  18. sar420

    sar420 Notable Member

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    #18
    Unfortuntely, right wing extemists are rising everywhere in the world today. Soon people will start burning witches
     
    sar420, Apr 14, 2009 IP
  19. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #19
    And its a shit stain that we can likely clean up in just a day or two with a few bombs. Nuke the bastards.

    BTW, the irony here is we have for the first time in 8 years attacks on "American" soil and "Americans" by terrorists. And for the first time in 200 years we have pirates taking over a US vessel.

    Seems to me the change of power has proven all the naysayers correct. Dumbama was and is bad news for America.

    I'm off to buy another gun. Start stock piling now folks. Its easy to find guns, but its getting harder and harder to locate ammunition. Gee I wonder why.
     
    Mia, Apr 15, 2009 IP
  20. Bushranger

    Bushranger Notable Member

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    #20
    The thing is Mia, when you post crap like this it not only brings you down, it puts all your other posts on the same level. I used to respect your point of view, whether I agreed or not, now I will just cringe when I see your posts like I do with nemmy!
     
    Bushranger, Apr 15, 2009 IP