Not all non-religious would fit into an atheist category. There are people who grew up in church but maybe strayed away from attending and reading the bible. They might even acknowledge that they aren't living their life the way they should. They can classify themselves as Non-religious, but not be athiest.
Nice self-fulfilling prophecy there. Atheists who are physicists claim they can in fact explain the "big-bang", so all you've done there is use your own lack of knowledge on the subject and have put it in some other persona's mouth. Bravo. The purpose of this thread is flawed: The original poster claims that: Q. Atheists cannot answer where the universe came from, Right... A. Some atheists claim that the universe came from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past. So there we have it. That's where it 'came from'. Don't bother crying "but where did THAT come from?" because that was not the original question now, was it? Of course, that can be asked later though. So here is how it should be Kolgames: A religious person: "Where did the universe come from?" "God made it" "Who is God?" "He is the Creator, he always has been, and always will be." "Where did God come from?" "I don't know." "So if you don't know WHERE he came from, how do you know he exists?" "I just believe it, I have faith that there is a God." (Notice how Kolgames believes that religious faith answers everything and supersedes scientific faith. Laughable.) An atheist: Where did the universe come from? "I believe that at some point in our history, the universe as we know it expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition; a singularity." How did that large expansion happen? "No-one knows for certain." Well if you don't know, how do you know it happened? "I believe it. I have faith in its logic and the evidence shown through red-shift, scientific method and observation." So tell me, how is YOUR faith any better than MY faith? Now, I could easily rip apart your argument by asking how god made everything. It's EXACTLY the same as asking me how the universe came about via the 'big bang'. At least think things through before posting an argument. Where DO these people come from... *shakes head*
Well let's just see if "The purpose of this thread is flawed". . .or if its just your rationalization? I think I'll prove/show the latter. Right so far. Well, if "Some atheists" can only "claim", then that's not a sure and definite answer, huh? So they still have not answered the question: "Where Did the Universe Come From???". But because I'm a fair guy, I grant you that a "claim" is an answer. But, since "Some atheists" also "claim" that "there is nothing outside the universe." And if we're going to accept their first claim: "the universe came from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past."; then, to be "Fair and Balanced", we have to accept their other claim: "there is nothing outside the universe", huh? Now if "there is nothing outside the universe", then that would mean that it is impossible that "the universe came from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past."; because for it to have happened that way, would mean that something [or SOMEONE] is outside of the universe. . .and caused it; because you cannot just have "a primordial hot and dense initial condition" come out of the "outside of the universe" that doesn't exist, nor from "the universe" that hadn't yet come to be, right? And you and I both know that 'ats' don't want to go with that Probability, right? Better check again!!! I keep telling you. . .GOD!
Listen, you're trying to play semantics here and you're failing miserably. The word 'claim' is to assert a belief. So yes, it is a definite answer. It's just the same as saying: "Some atheists believe... think... know...". Skirting around arguing ridiculous points like this just shows how you're backed into a corner and have to pick at the lexis instead of the actual argument Christ... I don't know why on earth you're bringing this up. I think you need a lesson on how to isolate relevant points and how to debate. You're doing what you do best: realise you're incorrect about one statement, so then have to bring up an entirely irrelevant statement to try and justify the previous. We're not talking about the method and mechanics of the universe, your question was simply: where did the universe come from, and I gave you an answer. If we're discussing the mechanics, make a new thread about it! Your title refers only to where not how! I can't believe I have to spell this out Hahaha no, no. This shows EXACTLY that you have NO IDEA what I'm talking about else you wouldn't make such a foolish school-boy error. The exterior, or lack of, of the universe has nothing AT ALL to do with the possibility of the singularity. What ARE you talking about? At least use intermediary explanations when making statements to back up what you're saying, else all your statements are simply leaps like: Because of 'unfounded A' therefore 'unfounded B'. It should be: Because of explanation of A, therefore logic dictates B. Here's a nice picture for you since you're finding it hard to read Says who? That's just like saying: "Because we see the sun move around in the sky, it must orbit the earth, right?" NO. Why does something have to be "outside" of something else in order for it to happen? That's a very infantile way of looking at things. Areas of science such as quantum physics certainly do not need this. Please, spare us the painful straw-clutching. This also shows how narrow your thinking is. If god has always been around and was exempt from an initial cause, why can't the universe? That's one school of thought. I can't believe that you actually judge and comment on things you don't have the slightest clue about! Your post is nothing but waffle! At the end of the day I can account for red-shift and background radiation which support all of the above, whereas you likely have no idea what they are and more likely cannot explain them, or maybe you can... "god did it"... the theological way of passing the buck. Be gone troll!
Every arguments you make about God (eternal, without cause, etc) can be made also for "the universe". Every questions you ask about "the universe" (When did it start? why?) can also be asked about God. You ask something of the atheists that you cannot yourself provide, and you criticize their answers when your own answers can be criticized the same way. I think the only way to win is to accept we don't know at this point, to borrow from Socrates. You may think you know, but you don't. You have beliefs, not knowledge.
Unfortunately, we may be willing to accept this Koan, but I seriously doubt they will. Their book is right, remember - the word of god... written by man
I can always tell when I've won a debate by the ranting, raving, and anger that the person, I have debated exhibits. Come on now, admit it. I cleaned your clock; I took your argument and turned it back on to you and now you're thoroughly pissed. And I didn't even use the word, GOD, until my very last statement in reply to your sarcastic question, "Where DO these people come from... *shakes head*". So as we say here in The USA, "You just go on and be mad, cuz you sure ain't gonna whup nobody!!!" Try to come up with a better argument and I'll be more than happy to give you a rematch. And remember, Mate, you practically begged for that spanking.
I wasn't ranting matey, where is that supposed to be? I put such a well crafted argument, that you had no other choice but to declare you won, rather delusionally, because you know deeeeeep down (and I mean DEEP haha) that you don't have a leg to stand on. You didn't touch any of my previous statements or arguments, and that shows a lot I'm not pissed off mate, you just need educating properly and I think I made a good start Cheers mate Looks like 1 to me, and 0 to you
I have yet to see a word in this scripture of yours that talks about the dinosaurs which we know exhisted. But yet, this invisible man in the sky created the whole world in...what was it? 6 days? Damn. Thats pretty fast. No wonder he needed the whole 7th day to rest. He must have a great set of ears to hear my mind if I pray as well. All I have seen the OP do is make himself look dumber and dumber. Other people posting in favor of Christian beliefs have at least had somewhat valid arguments. Ridle me this. If the Earth revolves around the sun, why do Christians think Earth is the Center of the Universe? Why is this hell of yours in the ground? (that is what is taught, you will go down to hell.....) Why are there so many different religions if the Christian God is the only one? I find the religions with multiple Gods a little more plausible to be honest.
The results are in and it's official... Nehemiah is a plank and has lost the debate hands down. Sorry old chap but you are a deluded soul and your rants on here prove it so. NEXT!
LOL that's funny! God is the author of a book where man is the editor in chief. lonestar, Nehemia is the P&R section mascot. You can't really take him seriously.
And here's something even funnier: ROFLMAO, "evolution" "god is the author of a book" that 'ats/ags' have to change every thirty minutes or less. Dang, have you guys every considered going into the Pizza Delivery Business. But then, that might not work either, you could never be sure of the correct address to deliver to, huh? Look GiGi; if you're going to become a Believer on GOD, you're going to have to loose that selfishness.
I guess a symptom of believing in a god is excessive spelling errors, incoherent ranting, and extreme delusion?
Correct, we have our very own example of evolution in practice... the ignorance of a religious individual manifests itself in strange unfocused ranting and spelling mistakes that would make a pre-schooler blush.
I’d sure love to see if you’re half as good debating the issues as you are slinging the Ad Hominems and Needlings, that you try to disguise with question marks (?). But if debating the issues is not your forte, then I’ll understand.
He said "I Am The I Am"; then who are you? - you limited creatures of unbelievers with a life expectancy to a maximum of 120 years. The "I Am" was here before you and will be here after you. Technically, practically and spiritually the copyright goes to the "I Am". Who are you?
Would you ask Dickie Dawkins Where did the Universe came from? For some reason, he just won't answer me. And if he can't answer that, would you ask him, Where does Human Consciousness comes from? And be careful gweb, it seems as though you're making this Dawkins your very own little god. . .and you know THE GOD don't like that. . .plus its not good for your image as an 'at'. . .in fact it down right hypocritical.
Quite the contrary, like many others have said, debating with you - someone who uses zero logic in their "arguments" is incredibly pointless.
Ugh, I don't know why the intelligent people in here are even bothering with this guy. Even if you posted a video or pictures of exactly HOW and WHEN the universe came to be, even if it showed a magical unicorn wearing Superman underwear creating the universe, he would still claim it was god. He is absolutely the worst person to have in this section because he's like a 2-year-old. Can't reason with him at all. Why argue with someone who obviously is NEVER going to even listen to the other point of view? Pride (Latin, superbia) In almost every list pride (or hubris or "vanity") is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and indeed the ultimate source from which the others arise. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self.