Looking back I feel i've made some rash remarks lately toward the Christian faith. I don't mean to lump you all in one group. I think there's a good many of you that don't fit the stereotype, and are unfortunately included in it too often. Look no further however, than the typical group I am meaning to refer to as to why so many grow irritated of Christianity - of all religions. And even those in this 'typical' group I'm sure are well-intentioned. But so are liberals I think highly of the Christians on this board who put God in the center of their life and apply the teachings of Christ, loving their fellow man regardless of faith or race. In my opinion, you have a better chance of "saving" me by leading by example, not preaching from text .
Without the text they have nothing but their own thoughts and devices to help them explain the unexplainable. A scary thought for a lot of them. Hence one of the reasons they'll defend said texts even when they don't make sense.
I fail to see where the 'said texts' do not make sense. Of course, there are many who try to make them say what fits their own beliefs. Many people take the scriptures out of their intended contexts. When that occurs, then yes, things start to not make sense. It is unfortunate that many who call themselves Christians will not actually take the Word at what it says without manipulating the text and parsing words.
The texts "don't make sense" because they tell stories that we now know are patently untrue. The book of Genesis and it's stories of creation don't make sense because according to them, man was created magically "in God's image" with the ability to speak and do everything we can do today. Fact is, there is plenty of fossil evidence of animals and even other humanoids that existed before man. And you see it's OK that they don't make sense. They are good stories with lessons to be learned. The problem comes when people try to take them literally. The contradiction comes when people realize they can't take them literally or even seriously yet they've been taught all their lives that they are the words of God. Tough situation to be in. Unless.... you simply don't think about it and let religious leaders tell you what to think.
Nate , its is precisely these so called evangalizing christians that get people to go away from the faith then bring them back. They memorize the bible just like robots and forget the basic tenent of christianity and that is LOVE. If you have time to evangalize 24 hours a day especially during a time when people are dying of hunger halfway around the world and so many people in this world feel along with no one to talk to , then you are missing the whole point of christianity . If you know the bible like the back of your hand and dont practice with kindness,warmth, compassion and empathy then you might as well not know the bible at all.
I tend to disagree, to a degree. Yes, you are correct when you say that people try to take things literally, especially when the context shows that things are either 1) visions or 2) figurative. Again, it comes down to people wanting to warp the text to fit their beliefs. As for neanderthal, has science been able to prove that it wasn't either 1) a human with some kind of defect from ancient times or 2) a totally different species of ape long since extinct and/or undiscovered in recent times? Scientists are constantly finding new creatures that they once thought did not exist (or had disappeared totally), such as when science re-discovered the giant squid. A thinker would definitely have to concede that these are possibilities, also. Scientists are also, in fact, human, and are prone to making mistakes, as the rest of us are. In addition, science has no way of proving that the Bible is the word of God using the tools of mankind. It also cannot disprove it, though they may try. We are human, and our minds are finite. Let's assume something about Genesis' story of creation. If there were an all-powerful god, would he/she not be able to create the world (assuming the god were all powerful)? Also, bear in mind that the 'big bang theory' is just as unlikely. Seriously, all of the complexities of the world...just by a weird freak accident? I still don't see how that would be REMOTELY possible. And now, a touch of levity (while still holding my beliefs). One reason I do not feel that evolution is as Darwin stated is this: after 'millions of years' of evolving mothers, why haven't they developed REAL eyes in the back of their heads, fifteen arms, and the lack of a need for sleep? Also, I don't understand one thing about evolution. If, suddenly, a particular individual of a certain species just 'adapted' by changing to be/look totally different, how did that one individual creature reproduce? You have said a mouthful. I have known evangelicals (of which, I am not one) who you have hit the nail right on the head with this. You cannot force people to change, regardless of how much scripture you know (see also: catholics, etc.). The Bible speaks of converting people by your own example...not by inundating them with verses, etc. You cannot (and should not) force people to make a choice. To do so means, most likely, that they are just 'changing' to shut you up. That's not a whole-hearted choice, in most cases. Absolutely. Now, you really can't say that Christians MUST help people who are starving all around the world...it's not feasible. However, if you know people who are, it IS your duty to help them. We are to be good to everyone. The Bible talks about the Christian's duty for helping others. If you can help with someone's physical needs, you should. But no single individual (or even a group) can help everyone. They are, however, encouraged to help those who need help as much as they can - as individuals. The 'church' (group of Christians acting together as a congregation) cannot use funds collected for the work of spreading the gospel for aiding those who are not Christians, however the individuals ARE authorized to so as they can. I'm kind of big on reading the Bible in it's context. It makes more sense that way. A quick note: this is an interesting discussion, and I thank you, Nate, for starting the thread.
Which is the core of nearly all my arguments against religion. I often have state over and over again on this board that I am not an atheist. I'm an agnostic. I am not by any means anti-God, just anti-religion, or in other words, the religious version or idea of God. The true "creator" if there was/is one could be a race of beings for all we know. I just wish both atheists and theists would stop pretending that they know and accept the fact that we just don't know. It is OK to just say you don't know! The huge range of variety you can find in the interpretation of religious texts within just one religion alone should be enough to get anyone who is even remotely capable of thinking on their own to see it is flawed to put it mildly. Putting aside that you can look at the variety of neanderthal skulls and see the unmistakable similarities to man, have to ask you, were monkeys, or humans with defects, writing cave drawings thousands of years before homosapiens existed? Because there is proof of this as well. That would disprove the notion that God created Adam and Eve *poof* like magic who could talk, write and do everything we do today. You seem to have an affinity for lists like I do so here's one back at you. 1) Where was neanderthal man in the bible? 2) Where were dinosaurs in the bible? Now before you go off and find some line in scripture that mentions a leviathan and claim that "could be dinosaurs" I ask you to think for a second. Because a rational mind would think that giant man eating lizards would get a bit more than an obscure mention in the bible if they existed at the same time or even within a few thousand years of the people who wrote the bible. Don't you think? So where are they? The answer is simple..... The bible was written by men. It is not the word of God and is inherently flawed. These men were limited in what they could say to only what they knew at the time. The fact that this is the case is so painfully obvious when reading the bible it's absurd to me to think otherwise. So the bottom line is incredibly clear here. The dinosaurs were not in the bible because the people that wrote the bible didn't know about them. That sound like a perfect God to you or... just men? I could write a whole post on this but I will sum up my opinion on this in one statement. If the bible were the word of God or even his tool to communicate his intent with God it would be perfect. It is not. The stumbling and stuttering you hear when you present believers with inaccuracies is proof enough that it isn't but furthermore, my mentioning of Neanderthal man and dinosaurs are one way science is proving that it isn't. I fully concede that the big bang theory is far fetched. I wouldn't say it's not possible because when you think about it the very fact that we're here could be proof that it is. What is even less likely to me is that a book of stories written by men (not God) to serve the purposes of men (not God) that has been proven time and time again to be nothing more than that, has it exactly right. That is not at all to say that the universe and beyond doesn't have some intellect behind it, I just highly doubt that some man made-up religion is even remotely capable of having it right. Remember the same species (man) that is behind the science you doubt (just because it's man) also created religion.... Considering that if evolution is truly what happened, the fact that man has evolved to the point he has from his origins going all the way back to single celled organisms I cann't complain too much Amen brotha.