Again... when you said everyone else.. who did you meant? Muslims or non Muslims.. so your "what is to everyone else a matter of common sense" is only good for yourself and not for others.. if we were to compare living in a country full of Christians and a country full of Muslims, definitely our judgment will differ.. so the best is to use a proper statistical analysis.. only then can you make any conclusion... others will just be a baseless assumption..
Yup I agree with you. But still the number of people in US who convert to Islam willingly is increasing so much, so fast. They surely do not believe in what other extremist Islam would have said.. Yup it's worthy, proven from the increasing number of converts in the western countries. This are people from develop countries who does not do things by force, who is living comfortably, who decide as they wish.
Well for most people it's easy to identify when someone is unable to participate in dialogue, they start demanding evidence and clarification for every little point being made. it's a way for those who would otherwise lose the debate to carry on making posts without ever actually saying of any worth. As for apostates being executed in islam, Read your hadiths. it's your religion, I shouldn't have to school you on it. Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody discards his religion, kill him.' " Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate." Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him'. Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to the verdict of Allah and his apostle. So do you agree that apostates should be murdered or do you reject the hadiths? let's try to get an answer this time.
Debate is with facts, sources, evidence.. without it, it's just a gossip.. get your point right.. This is better... Now you are acting wisely.. keep it this way.. As for the answers, I'll get back to you on this with better explanation.. it's better to answer it properly rather than countering with baseless argument..
Yeah i understand it may take some time for you to find the appropriate excuse for these particular passages. That's how it works in islam, right? Deny that something exists then when proven wrong copy and paste the standard excuses? I wonder what you will go for today; Mistranslation? contextual inaccuracy? heaven forbid you should do the right thing and just condemn the passages as barbaric.
I will gives a correct explanation rather than accusation, assumptions as what you always do. I don't want to play smart as this involves thorough study. Meantime, please don't stop, go ahead with your lame comments... I do find it entertaining..
The idea that people are forced to stay Muslim under threat of punishment takes away any argument that people make about their numbers. Even if they came to Islam voluntarily, they have no choice but to stay. Nobody has any idea how many people who are classified as Muslims really want to be Muslims or are just going along to avoid death or other punishment. That type of compulsion to stay Islamic reminds me of an old TV commercial. Does anyone remember those old Roach Motel commercials? You know, where they say, "roaches check in, but they never check out." (I am not in any way trying to equate Muslims to roaches, just the notion of not being able to leave Islam.) Lots of things sound good at first but then you change your mind - well not in Islam. Islam, for some reason, feels that it can't allow freedom of choice and must compel people with threats to stay Muslim. I just don't get how people can spin that into anything but the threat it is. When people do something because they are forced, it is hardly an endorsement.
Answer this simple question, it requires no study or outside research. Do you think people should be freely allowed to leave Islam with no punishment whatsoever?
Before you come to any conclusion let me explain the reason of my study. Islam does not permit taking the life of any innocent person, ever. Changing one's mind about what to believe about Allah, does not by itself, incur any form of physical punishment according to Islamic Law. It is generally thought that the Holy Quran provides the death sentence for those who desert the religion of Islam. There is not the least ground for such a supposition. The Holy Quran speaks repeatedly of people going back to unbelief after believing, but never once does it say that they should be killed or punished. Although the Holy Quran does provide the death sentence for some situations such as putting a murderer to death, but it never provided death sentence or ordered the death of those who leave Islam. When we talk about hadith, we need to look and understand the actual meaning of the hadith and not summarizing it just from part of it. That is what I'm doing now. InshaAllah with God will I'll summarize the answers soon.
Have a go at answering the simple question he wrote in plain English. he it is again in-case you innocently missed it. Do you think people should be freely allowed to leave Islam with no punishment whatsoever? It's understandable that you will want to avoid answering it. I mean, your options are fairly limited here. You either have to say the instructions found in the hadiths are wrong and immoral, or you have to condone the murder of people for the crime of changing their mind. it's only religion which could make it so hard to give such a simple and obvious answer.
azlanhussain, I'm a helpful guy. I think you mentioned something about responding to these so I'll paste them here for you again. Just trying to help. You're welcome. Just think.... had you been born in America you'd be believing in the Bible and Jesus and you wouldn't have this problem Oh wait, did I just point out how ridiculously subjective and random religion is even when considering something as simple as where you were born?
Great to see how anxiously you in finding the answers... InshaAllah Allah will open anyone's heart that's willing to seek the truth.. As I explained above, it is quite clear, that Allah Almighty prohibited compulsion in religion and allowed the absolute freedom of religion to everyone. When Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, executed apostates, he did it because Muslims were at war time and because Islam was still partial, and Muslims needed protection from the hypocrites of the Jews and Christians who purposely entered Islam and deserted it later to create confusion among the Muslims. The Sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, regarding killing the renegades came when Islam was partial and the Muslims were dealing with wars all the time. There is no reason to kill someone who doesn't deserve to be killed. Certainly if the apostate is hostile toward the Muslims and joins the enemy in a war against them, then the matter becomes different. But if a Westerner today for instance embraces Islam for a while and then changes his position due to the overwhelming false anti-Islamic media, then certainly killing that person would be a grave sin and a big mistake. So to exactly answer your question, my answer would be Yes & No.
That's why places like this forum is one of the best way to discuss about it, so that the truth will prevail. Yup I agree. That also includes, how ridiculous some people are when hating religion without firstly reading and understanding God's book, with an open and a clear mind.
I don’t dare to ask whether Hz. Muhammed (pbuh) said true or false. That time his enemies also knew him as a truthful person. Nobody will ever know what the learning of holy Qur’an is unless they read and understand the scripture from Allah. I like to thank you ‘aslanbash’ to share the websites.
What a load of bullshit. Nobody is asking if you can kill an enemy at war. It was a simple question. You chose to conflate two issues so that you could try and justify punishing an apostate. The moral and just answer is simple and requires no such bullshit. The answer is no, nobody should be punished for leaving any religion including Islam. That you are unable to utter that simple statement reflects poorly on you as a person and on your interpretation of Islam.
As predicted he is doing everything he can to get out of answering this simple little question. I'm glad he didn't answer though, it says more about his religion than honesty ever could. If he had come out and admitted that he supports the murder of those who leave islam we would have booed and moved on. But the fact that he doesn't feel he can answer publicly shows that not only does he support murder in the name of islam, but that he also knows how immoral it is.
Same old lame response... the fact is your question was a normal tactic used by nonbelievers.. no matter how justify our answer is, you just can't accept the fact that we do know how to twist it over.. God bless..
You didn't answer though, You evaded. You got out of answering what is, essentially, an easy question to answer. Have another go; Do you think people who leave islam should be killed like the hadiths say? Yes or no?
isn't it more likely that these people converted to islam in the first place because the alternative was death and "deserted" when they had the chance?