War on Terror: Israel's the way to go with Pak?

Is Israel a role model for India when it comes to security?source: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/war-on-terror-israels-the-way-to-go-with-pak/82023-3-single.html

The comparisons are unreal and yet inevitable. Both India, a multicultural democracy, and Israel, a homogenous, fortress-like state, face the constant challenge of terrorism.

But while India's way of dealing with terror is political and diplomatic, Israel's is armed action.

Monday marked the 10th day of Israel's military operation in Gaza which has left at least 507 Palestinians dead, a quarter of them civilians. Israel says that four of its civilians have been killed by rockets fired by Hamas since its offensive began.

Apart from a ground assault, Israeli forces continued to pound the 40-km densely-populated Gaza coastal strip from air and sea.

With complete backing from the outgoing US administration, Israel says Operation Cast Lead and stepping up of the offensive was unavoidable.

Back home, India too has done something it says was unavoidable. It has stepped up its diplomatic offensive by providing a dossier of evidence of Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai attacks to Pakistan and 14 other countries.

Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon says so massive was the planning behind the November 26 Mumbai attacks that the Pakistani establishment simply cannot deny the knowledge of it. He says the time for dialogue is over and Pakistan must act in the face of this overwhelming evidence.

So can Israel be India’s role model when it comes to national security? Can India do more than mere diplomatic overtures to tackle terror emanating from the neighbourhood? CNN-IBN debated the issue on Face the Nation with former chief of Army Staff General Shankar Roy Choudhary Research Professor, National Security Studies, Bharat Karnad and South Asia Bureau Chief of Al Arabia Dr Wael Awwad.

Israel and India: Chalk and cheese?

Awwad said to be like Israel, a country would require to kill innocents, something India can’t do. “India can never be colonial power, if you support state-sponsored terrorism, you can behave like Israel. If you are a victim of terrorism, you need the international support,” Awwad said, adding while one cannot choose his/her neighbour, one can certainly choose friends.

But one of the more popular opinions among critics of India’s stance is that the country doesn’t have the muscle to deal with terrorism the hard way. Bharat Karnad said it was a reflection of the frustration with government and there’s only one reason why people get excited about Israel.

“There’s no comparison between Israel-Palestine issue and the India-Pak issue. The fact that people confuse the two shows how frustrated they are with the government. But while Indian government only talks and never delivers, Israel delivers what it promises as action and that’s what excites Indians,” he said.

But the fact is also that Israel enjoys the immunity of the world community and not one American politician has spoken about what’s happening in Israel now.

Karnad agreed but said India’s diplomatic offensive may not bear fruit. “If Israel has a patron in America, Pak too has a patron in America. If you had to react, it had to be immediate and in form of an air strike or something,” he said.

But General Shankar Roy Choudhary felt there were similarities between the two stand-offs. Israel vs Hamas and India vs Lashkar-e-Toiba are the same, he said. “Having said that, there are vast differences between the two cases. The military asymmetry between Palestine and Israel is just too huge compared with India and Pak. India must use its options well,” he said.

When asked what these options were, he said they were not to be discussed in public. All he said was India should consider going beyond the dialogue. Karnad said India should hold out the option of punishment that will put Islamabad on the defensive.

Israel is a small, homogenous, culturally-united missionary state that’s a fortress. India is multi-ethnic, plural, and humongous and has porous borders. It cannot have the same security dialogue as Israel.

Awwad said Israel brought 95 nationalities together to create the state. “They have an identity crisis and that’s why they want to keep creating problems so they can hide behind them,” he said, adding, “India’s multicultural identity means it cannot take war-like postures with neighbours”.

Tit-for-tat?

Karnad seemed to disagree with Awwad and said if India wants to wage a war on Pakistan, it can owing to its sheer size superiority. But, he said, it was not politically feasible to do so. “This is because of a big Muslim electorate and the growing consciousness among them,” he said.

India has presented a dossier to Pakistan and other countries detailing the Pakistani involvement in 26/11. But can it be considered a forward movement in tackling terrorism emanating from Pak or is the aggressive diplomacy pointless?

General (retired) Roy Choudhary said what India was doing was good but also irrelevant. “Whatever proof it gives Pakistan, it wont accept as proof because Pakistan government is not the centre of power. It’s the Army and its perspective of India and use of LeT will not be affected by what India provides,” he said.

Will this charade continue to play then? What is India’s way forward in that case?

Karnad said India should focus on building capabilities like targeted intelligence. “Create for them the kind of situation that they have created for us,” he said. “This must be bloody minded but this is what Pakistan understands. Either we sit quiet and wait for other parties to mete out punishment or we do something on our own,” he said.

Many say that such aggressive counter-strike tactics will isolate India or pull it down off America’s good books. Awwad said India should look at winning the war without, preferably, fighting it. “If America can do it for them, it’s great. But Israel needs an occupation. No country can do it, it’s an outlawed country,” he said.

But Karnad did not agree and said being punitive will help India. Awwad stuck to his argument and said India was a responsible state and should continue being so.

The debate concluded with a disturbing, yet one of the most important questions of our times: How should a multi-cultural democracy deal with terror emanating from neighbourhood without sacrificing its core ideals?

 

It is well known the Israeli army guides the India.

 

its because Israeli is a first modern country, while India is still developing

 

Israell is a first modern country???

 

Actually, all conflicts and wars now happening are due to India. INDIA makes them fighting and get back to their homes

 

Israel is a poor model to be following right now. While revenge and indiscriminate killing may seem to be a satisfying response to terror attacks, in the long run it only creates a new generation of angry, violent terrorists.

Wait and see the long-term repercussions before supporting an Israel-style approach.

 

The effects of being spectacularly dumb.

 

Agreed, but not as dumb as this:

 

That he is dumb is a fact that is known to every other person in this forum. That is why I didn't want to quote him again.

 

Thanks for Appreciating
I will try to Keep it up

 

I have three points to make.

1. You needn't have pasted the entire article here. You could have just provided a link.

2. No matter how hard you try, India will never act tough against terrorists as a number of Indian politicians are terrorist supporters/sympathizers. So, I've stopped discussing the so called 'India's war on terror' in this forum. It is a known fact that India will never ever take some affirmative action to root out terrorism.

3. You've just given a chance to the Madrassa-educated brethren in this forum to have a field day bashing India and Israel, which is something they are really good at.

Have fun.

 

I have also three points

1. I like every country
2. i don't like india
3. i want to remove india from Earth

I didn't bash Israel but only india

 

Normally, I would be offended to see such crap. But considering the cult you belong to (radical Islam) and the country you are from, I didn't expect anything better from you. Have a nice day.

 

we must not forget SriLanka is also going the same way!
kill all the radicals and let peace prevail once and forall!

the way i look at it, terrorism kills 100s per month, with no end in sight!
an armed conflict like Gaza and SriLanka kill 1000s per day, with a definative end in sight!

casualties are the same, its the end which is more important!

India has the might to do it, we've hit them 4 times already,.... but those were diffrent leaders,
the leaders of the day as rightly pointed out by contentedge,.... simpy lack the balls for it, and hence we're getting hit again and again!

but i must add that the current diplomatic process started by Pranabh Mukerjee (Ext Minister) stands unmatched to any diplomatic effort ever taken before,... if this doesnt work, and India doesnt strike then,... the congress can bite the dust for the rest of eternity!

Jai Hind!

 

he's a 16 year old kid from Pak, what do you expect?
these guys are born brainwashed!

 

And yet they have the balls to continue doing what they do best. Seems something went wrong somewhere, right?

Nope; the people in this country, the illegal immigrants included, showed us how they care about this country when they voted for Congress again in Delhi recently. Even in the next elections, I don't think the BJP will be able to get a majority. The Congress, possibly joining hands with terrorist supporters from UP and Bihar and the resident Chinese agents, will reclaim power again. I'd be happy if I'm proven wrong though.

 

First of all, you contradicted yourself with the first two points. Second, saying things like this only makes you look ignorant and foolish.

 

You are crap and dumb
I can just say this

 

1) who is involved in Mumbai attack???

2) whose media is this:
http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533603&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203

http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100533604&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20081203

 

Actually, i want more attacks on india. yes, this is our media and not blaming others like yours