When it comes to Israel you want certain rules to apply, when it comes to Arab nations you want other rules to apply. The world does not work that way. Israel is here to stay. That you continue to insist otherwise is just a waste of your breath. Unlike you, I would have no problems with Israel living side by side with a Palestinian state. It is a shame for all Palestinians that they are but mere pawns to the Arab world.
In response the the apartheid comments... The irony is, people treat the Muslims as the underdogs... .25% of the world is Jewish, 21% of the world practices Islam! Everyday there as less Jews and a lot more Muslims. The Jews are the underdogs, always have been. Just because their small sect has prospered does not mean you can call them the oppressors! The entire world has always considered the Jews the oppressors when in fact they are often the oppressed. It is amazing that such a small group of people have done so much. When you look at the big picture (beyond what is happening in Israel) you will see that the Jews are far from oppressors.
I m not sure what rules you are talking about, I listed some Zionists acts, that they themselves described them as terrorism, I do not think any sane person would like to give terrorists a state, and for sure it won't stay, not because I want so, but because its the natural end for any illegal, strange entity, Jews been living side by side with Muslims, since history till when Zionists came with their project to establish the illegal state of Israel after expelling and killing the historical people of that land, this is not my opinion alone, in fact many Jews share this same opinion, because they also been a victim of the Zionists terrorism, here are some links try to educate yourself a little: www.jewsagainstzionism.com www.nkusa.org www.jewsnotzionists.org WHY IS WORLD JEWRY OPPOSED TO THE ZIONIST STATE quote from www.jewishpeacefellowship.org picture from www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org ( This SF Bay Area grassroots organization is dedicated to the rights of Jews, Palestinians, and all peoples in the Middle East. They believe conflict won't end until Israel removes settlements. Site includes petition, listserver, resources, media.) quote from http://www.washington-report.org/Washington-Report_org/www/backissues/0796/9607018.htm will add more later
You call it illegal, so what. You call it strange, so what. You call it terrorist, so what. Israel is a state. It is recognized the world around. It is a member of the UN and its founding was with the imprimatur of the UN. Just because you wish it were not true does not make it so. But, again, you waste your time talking about making Israel go away instead of trying to see that the Palestinians have a state. Like so many other fools you would rather see Israel have no state that to see the Palestinians have one. It is really pretty pathetic how you sell the Palestinians out for a false hope that Israel will perish. (p.s. If you want to know why there are Jews who are opposed to Israel it is because Israel and Jews allow for dissenting thought. Something you simply do not see coming from the Arab and Muslim world. Those Arab and Muslim voices are silenced or dead. It is ironic how you even try to twist that simple fact. Speak out in support of Israel in some Arab or Muslim nation and watch what happens. Do you think we are all simply ignorant. Thank God the leaders of nearly every nation on Earth know the reality of what is happening. You can have the ignorant masses on your side.)
yes Israel is illegal, and I told you why in the past, you can search the forums for that info, its not just empty words like yours, and of course, its strange because it does not belong to the region, and 100% terrorists, even their prime minister says so, how many times do I have to show you what he said: if they use terrorism as means of war, they should expect others to use it against them too. Palestinians do have a state, they are working on liberating it P.S. There are Jews who are opposed to Israel because Israel does not speak on behalf of Jews, no matter how they try to appear so, its very normal that Jews speak on behalf of themselves, whether Israel allowed them or not, even if Israel did not allow them, or ridiculed them, or even silenced them, they will still find a way to speak, we have seen how Israel sent back a UN envoy because he spoke the truth and compared them to Nazis. Israel expels Jewish UN official over Nazi remarks
It is almost comical that you say Israel does not belong in the region. The ignorance of that statement alone is astounding. If Islam had its way it would have built over every remnant of other religions and then claim they never existed. The world is grateful that Islam is such a failure in its attempts in that vein. Where it has succeeded, it is a shame worn by all of Islam. Were you proud when the Buddhist artifacts were removed from Afghanistan in the name if Islam? Or will you just tell your kids that they never existed? I am done correcting your absurd lie and twisting of facts. I guess you will just have to wallow in your ignorance.
yes of course Israel does not belong to the region, what so strange about it, your failure to understand something, does not mean you just go and stick any meaning to it, then say I got it, you can ask, see this example, I will try to explain it as I do to kids: I said Israel does not belong to the region. I did not say Judaism never existed. can you see the difference? Christianity came from Palestine too, does that mean every Christian in the world would go and live in Palestine and claim its their own land?
Sorry imad... but that point is irrelevant. Judaism is different from Islam and Christianity because it is more than a religion, it is also a culture. Jews are Semitic people (from the area where Israel is!). If you are a Jew, you are more than a believer in a certain set of beliefs, you are a descendant of the Semites. Unlike Islam and Christianity... Judaism does not actively seek converts - for this specific reason! To be a Jew is to have ancestors from the region of the world where Israel exists... That is a sufficient condition for Muslims and Christians but not a necessary one, like it is for true Jews. Boom! -pk
are you saying all Jews are descendant from Semites? Are the modern Jews really the descendants of the ancient people of Israel? Boo! -jk
Turn of which century? At the turn of the last century as in 1900? That is some pretty weak anthropology. The kind of anthropology that was used to justify all sorts of inhumane acts all over the world during most of the first half of the last century.
Hah... That piece you attached is interesting as a piece of fictional propaganda. It comes from www.biblebelievers.org and was written by the ex-head pastor of the Church of Israel, Scott Stinson. Stinson has renounced more religions than I even knew existed. He has no idea what he really believes and this was simply a piece of propaganda he wrote to try and validate the somewhat "out there" arguments from the Church of Israel. Reputable sources have argued the opposite for ages... why would this guy be right? Moreover... I'll grant you that he is right. Israel has fought and won wars for that land, why shouldn't it be theirs? Also - Ethiopian Jews (from your picture are) "Ethiopians are descendants of Israelite tribes who came to Ethiopia with Menelik I, alleged to be the son of King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba " -pk
That's what I hear from some when they run out of logic, "they fought and won the wars for that land", now that's what I can call a piece of propaganda, but I won't tell you why would you be right? I will tell you where you made wrong. "why somebody would be right" is not a good argument, but the info he presents is subject for discussion, analysis, refute .. etc then we can say, that person is not right because his info was not accurate, fake, lies, whatever is the reason, if you used "they won the wars and won the land" from the beginning would have been a better argument, as for they won the land, in international laws, which Israel thinks they are above them, winning a war does not give you the right to own the land, as I said many times, its considered occupied land, and the occupation gives the right for the original inhabitants to resist, in the way they see it better, not the way somebody outside would think its better. now why the Arabs fought in 1948, and in 1967? when they were just finished liberating their countries from another occupation by the Ottoman empire, between which the Zionists came to make use of the current situation and steal the land, then claim its theirs because they been there something like 2000 years ago, (their stay 2000 years ago lasted for nearly 70 years only, and of course, there were people there before them) This was Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of the illegal state of Israel, he sees nothing immoral with ethnic cleansing. He also wrote in November 11, 1948: DemocracyNow.org made an interview with former Israeli Foreign Minister, in which he admits that: He also forgot to say that even before they fought with the allies against the Ottoman empire for the promise to get their Independence, including Palestine, which Britain and France did not fulfill. read or listen to the full interview here, it has many other interesting facts
Its "less than" 1400 years. But anyway. Yeah, the suicide bombing concept "has" been around almost as long. It's one of a long line of fundamental beliefs Muhammad dictated in the Quran. I'm not sure what bothers me more. The fact that people defend this crap, or the sheer fact that the majority of people that believe and defend it, have never bothered to actually read it. The problem with the phrase "suicide bomber" is that it intentionally intends to detract from the actual act by separating "suicide" from "martyrdom". For the 99.9% of Muslims here that have not read their own Holy book. Suicide is NOT permitted in Islam. Martyrdom IS however. A "suicide bomber" is in fact what in Islam is known as Shahid or Fedayeen eg. "Martyr". The actual point of the bomber is NOT suicide. The point is to kill infidels. This is something that is not only permitted by Muhammad. Its heavily encouraged with great promises of heavenly reward. These people are not suicide bombers. They are murderers in the name of a false prophet and a hateful religion. From the Quran Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." Sura (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." Sura (2:207) - "And there is the type of man who gives his life to earn the pleasure of Allah..." Sura (61:10-12) "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement." This verse was given at the battle Uhud and uses the Arabic word, Jihad. No, suicide bombings are not terror acts. They are holy acts carried out by followers of Islam. It sickens me to think that I have to educate people who profess a faith in something they do not even understand.
I'm not trying to be a grammar pundit or something, but it should be 'Pedophiles are the result of young children.' PS: There is no point in arguing with people like Thraxed. He once called me a 'bitter Hindu' despite my repeated statements on my belief - agnosticism. It's just the way they are.
Thanks for catching that. I've had little sleep. Had to attend to some customers server early this morning and am still at work. True. But now that he is finally gone, I find it easier to carry on a conversation with him.
It's obvious that it's pointless to argue anything with you because you have your twisted picture of the world and live in with lies and day after day after day keep repeating those lies. Islam is not my religion so please stop with that lie. Thanks. Again, the fact that Islam stole,as you said, more land that your own nation doesn't change the fact that YOUR own nation stole it too and it doesn't change fact that Jews STOLE land too. It WASN'T Jew land at the first and Jews stole it too. Period. Learn some history. West Bank and Gaza. It's compromise and you have peace in ME without compromise and those from both sides will agreed on that. Israel attacked in 1967. Read some history facts. Without them attacking there would be no 1967. war. In 1967. Israel attacked when they got asurance from US president that they won't get attacked. How honrable of them. There was never American nation but,as always, you "americans" have double standards for everything, right? Another fairy tale made up in zionywood... Are you saying that Egyptians who basicly sold Palestinians are now fighting to remove Israel from the map? Or the Jordanians? On the other hand I would bet that Israel will stop existing as Jewish state somewhere in future but none of us will live long enough to see that. It's simple matter of birth rate and most of the western world have same problem.
So post some statistics about Israeli population than so let's check it. Post like % of Jews and % Muslims 20,10 and 5 years ago. After you post it let's talk about my "dreams"...
The majority in Israel would still be Jewish cause the Paletinians would get their own state by then.