For Muslim women in Europe, a medical road back to virginity

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by browntwn, Jun 10, 2008.

  1. #1
    For Muslim women in Europe, a medical road back to virginity

    PARIS: The surgery in the private clinic off the Champs-Élysées involved one semicircular cut, 10 self-dissolving stitches and a discounted fee of $2,900.

    But for the patient, a 23-year-old French student of Moroccan descent from Montpellier, the 30-minute procedure represented the key to a new life: the illusion of virginity.

    Like an increasing number of other Muslim women in Europe, she had a "hymenoplasty," a restoration of her hymen, the thin vaginal membrane that normally breaks during the first act of intercourse.

    "In my culture, not to be a virgin is to be dirt," said the student, perched on a hospital bed as she awaited surgery Thursday. "Right now, virginity is more important to me than life."

    As Europe's Muslim population grows, many young Muslim women find themselves caught between the freedoms that European society affords and the deep-rooted traditions of their parents' and grandparents' generations.

    Gynecologists report that in the past few years, more Muslim women are asking for certificates of virginity before marriage.

    That trend in turn has created a demand among cosmetic surgeons for hymen replacements, which, if done properly, they say, will not be detected and will produce tell-tale vaginal bleeding on the wedding night. The service is widely advertised on the Internet; there are medical tourism packages to countries like Tunisia where the procedure is less expensive.

    "If you're a Muslim woman growing up in more open societies in Europe, you can easily end up having sex before marriage," said Hicham Mouallem, a doctor in London who performs the surgery. "So if you're looking to marry a Muslim and don't want to have problems, you'll try to recapture your virginity."

    There are no reliable statistics on how many women undergo the procedure because it is mostly done in private clinics and in most cases is not covered by tax-financed insurance plans.

    But the subject of hymen repair is becoming so talked about that it has become the subject of a film comedy that opens in Italy this week. "Women's Hearts," as its title is translated in English, tells the story of a Moroccan-born woman living in Italy who takes a road trip to Casablanca for the operation.

    "We realized that what we thought was a sporadic practice was actually pretty common," said Davide Sordella, the director. "These women can live in Italy, adopt our mentality and wear jeans. But in the moments that matter, they don't always have the strength to go against their culture."

    The issue has been particularly charged in France, where there has been a renewed and fierce debate about a prejudice that was supposed to have been buried with the country's sexual revolution 40 years ago: the importance of a woman's virginity.

    The furor followed the revelation two weeks ago that a court in the northern city of Lille had annulled the 2006 marriage of two French Muslims after the groom discovered his bride was not the virgin she had claimed to be.

    The domestic saga has gripped the nation. The bridegroom, an unidentified engineer in his 30s, left the nuptial bed and announced to the still-partying wedding guests that his bride had lied about her past. She was delivered that night to her parents' doorstep.

    The next day, he asked a lawyer to annul the marriage. The bride, then a nursing student in her 20s, confessed the truth to the court and agreed to an annulment.

    In its ruling, there was no mention of religion. Rather, it cited breach of contract, concluding that he had married her after "she was presented to him as single and chaste."

    In secular, republican France, the case touches on several sensitive subjects: the intrusion of religion into daily life, the grounds for dissolution of a marriage and the equality of the sexes.

    There were calls in Parliament this week for the resignation of Rachida Dati, the minister of justice, after she upheld the ruling. Dati, who is a Muslim, backed down and ordered an appeal.

    Some feminists, lawyers and doctors warned that the court's acceptance of the centrality of virginity in marriage would encourage more French women from Arab and African Muslim backgrounds to have their hymens rebuilt. But there is much debate over whether the procedure is an act of liberation or repression.

    "The judgment was a betrayal of France's Muslim women," said Elizabeth Badinter, a feminist writer. "It sends these women a message of despair by saying that virginity is important in the eyes of the law. More women are going to say to themselves: 'My God, I'm not going to take that risk. I'll recreate my virginity."'

    The plight of the rejected bride persuaded the Montpellier student to go ahead with the surgery.

    She insisted that she had never had intercourse and said that she had discovered her hymen was torn only when she tried to obtain a certificate of virginity to present to her boyfriend and his family.

    She said she had bled after an accident on a horse when she was 10.

    The trauma of realizing that she could not prove her virginity was so intense, she said, that she quietly took out a loan to pay for the procedure.

    "All of a sudden, virginity is important in France," she said. "I realized that I could be seen like that woman everyone is talking about on television."

    Surgeons who perform the procedure said they were empowering their patients by giving them a viable future and preventing them from being abused - or even killed - by their fathers or brothers.

    "Who am I to judge?" asked Marc Abecassis, the plastic surgeon who restored the Montpellier student's hymen. "I have colleagues in the United States whose patients do this as a Valentine's present to their husbands. What I do is different. This is not for amusement. My patients don't have a choice if they want to find serenity - and husbands."

    A specialist in what he calls "intimate" surgery, including penile enhancement, Abecassis says he performs two to four hymen restorations a week.

    The French College of Gynecologists and Obstetricians opposes the hymen procedure on moral, cultural and health grounds.

    "We had a revolution in France to win equality; we had a sexual revolution in 1968 when women fought for contraception and abortion," said Jacques Lansac, the association's president. "Attaching so much importance to the hymen is regression, submission to the intolerance of the past."

    But the stories of the women who have had the surgery capture the complexity and raw emotion behind their decision.

    One 32-year-old Macedonian-born Muslim said that she had chosen the surgery to avoid being punished by her father after her relationship with her boyfriend of eight years ended.

    "I was afraid that my father would take me to a doctor and see whether I was still a virgin," said the woman, who owns a small business and lives on her own in Frankfurt. "He told me, 'I will forgive everything, but not if you have thrown dirt on my honor.' I wasn't afraid he would kill me, but I was sure he would have beaten me."

    In other cases, the woman and her partner together decide on the surgery. A 26-year-old French woman of Moroccan descent said she lost her virginity four years ago when she fell in love with the man she was now planning to marry. She and her fiancé decided to share the cost of her $3,400 hymen replacement surgery in Paris.

    His extended family in Morocco is very conservative, she said, and required that a gynecologist - and family friend - in Morocco examine her for proof of virginity before their wedding.

    "It doesn't matter for my fiancé that I am not a virgin, but it would pose a huge problem for his family," she said. "They know that you can pour blood on the sheets on the wedding night, so I have to have better proof."

    Meanwhile, the lives of the young French couple whose marriage was annulled are on hold. The Justice Ministry has asked the Lille prosecutor for an appeal, arguing that the court decision "provoked a heated social debate" that "touched all citizens of our country and especially women." At the Islamic Center of Roubaix, the suburb of Lille where the marriage took place, there is sympathy for the woman.

    "The man is the biggest of all the donkeys," said Abdelkibir Errami, the center's vice president. "Even if the woman was no longer a virgin, he had no right to expose her honor. This is not what Islam teaches. It teaches forgiveness." source

    ______

    First, I think that people should be free to do what they want with their bodies. Second, I find the whole notion of testing a woman for virginity sad and offensive.
     
    browntwn, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  2. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #2
    It's her choice to be a Muslim. She ovbiously thought she made a mistake by having sex before marriage, otherwise she would not have had the surgery.
     
    ThraXed, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  3. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #3

    Of course, it her right as it should be everyone's right to practice their religion. Likewise, I don't have any problem with people having the procedure of they want to.

    However, you are missing the other aspect of the story. Some women are doing this out of fear.
     
    browntwn, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  4. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #4
    Alot of people have problems with abusive fathers
     
    ThraXed, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  5. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #5
    Yeah, the practice is irrational (or maybe not if the husband is a virgin and expecting honesty from his wife up front), but the woman being afraid, knows the consequences of having sex outside of marriage. And no, I don't mean the beatings, I mean the consequences in her own and her family's honor.

    So either she should leave Islam, or not have sex. But asking to be a Muslim who sleeps around, and then having surgery to "pretend" she is chaste, seems totally bizarre to me.
     
    guerilla, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  6. bogart

    bogart Notable Member

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    #6
    The money would be better spent on a breast augmentation.

    Along the same lines of the comestic surgery is the muslim abortion rate in Europe.

    A recent research by Rutgers Nisso Groep looked at teens abortions in the Netherlands. Immigrant women choose abortion much more often then the ethnic Dutch. The increase is most striking by the Moroccans and Turks, which compared to other immigrant groups have a relatively low abortion rate. 0.5% of ethnic Dutch preganant women get an abortion, compared to 2% by Moroccans and Turks
     
    bogart, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  7. stOx

    stOx Notable Member

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    #7
    whats with this obsessions with genitals that we get from the religious? If they aren't mutilating their child's genitals they are sending them to doctors to have them inspected.
     
    stOx, Jun 10, 2008 IP
  8. tonyran

    tonyran Peon

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    #8
    easy, from their point of view genitals is the source of all sin, thats why baby girls are circumsized, so they don't grow to be wild woman.
     
    tonyran, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  9. cientificoloco

    cientificoloco Well-Known Member

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    #9
    which implies a strange paradox. If a god made humans 'perfect' why is sexual pleasure a bad thing? After all that's the function of those organs it 'gave' us.
     
    cientificoloco, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  10. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #10
    in a way it is the same thing as breast augmentation.
    it is the women doing something to their body to please the man.
    now as far as the other issue of abortion rate. what is the rate here in US?
     
    pizzaman, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  11. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Speaking as a male virgin, i definately would prefer to meet a female virgin, but there is a difference between meeting a female virgin by freedom of choice then meeting a woman that stayed a virgin out of fear. Virginity isnt something that should EVER be pressured on someone .

    Bogart if you wanna see breast augmentation lebanon is the leader in the category lol. They have the second largest plastic surgery rate per person in the world behind only brazil. Guerilla i agree with your point, but the pressure to stay a virgin for a female in the muslim faith is tremendous, what i dont understand is why they dont place equal pressure on men to be virgins.
    Can any muslim here on this thread please answer this question that has puzzled me for a while.
     
    pingpong123, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  12. Supper

    Supper Peon

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    #12
    Why? lol. It's not fun when she just lays there and doesn't move. What you want is some goth slut that has done the craziest things. She'll rock your world.

    As per the topic, I think people have the right to do it. But to conflict with Thraxed I think the reason they do it is the most important. If they do it because it means something to them. Well good for them. If they do it because they're afraid they'll be ostracized or violently attacked than that is wrong.

    The issue sort of parallels gay people. They have the "right" to act straight, but the reason they do it is really what counts.
     
    Supper, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  13. mimm

    mimm Banned

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    #13
    Nothing change my opinion after reading that article. Still I think a woman has to be virgin until she married. It's a must.
     
    mimm, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  14. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #14
    I don't think anyone would object to you having that personal preference.

    What do you think should happen to those women who lose their virginity before marriage?

    Does anyone have a right to beat them?

    They may view themselves with dishonor and that is also their families right to view them that way. As it is your right to feel that way. I am curious if you feel there should be any other punishment or consequence for a women who has sex before marriage just for pleasure.
     
    browntwn, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  15. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #15
    Supper it all depends on what sex means to a person. I believe that sex is not just an instinctive hormonal act. I believe that sex is holy and for me i wont share it with any woman unless she is my wife. I dont want my sex to be some random act of instinct, i want it to mean much much more.


    mimmNothing change my opinion after reading that article. Still I think a woman has to be virgin until she married. It's a must.


    Mimm, that is the most hypocritical post i have seen yet. If your not a virgin why would u want your soulmate to be a virgin. Why is it more shameful if a woman isnt a virgin than if a man isnt one. There will never
    be balance in any relationship if you place a standard that you urself cant even follow. So are you a virgin by any chance? Lets hear it.
     
    pingpong123, Jun 11, 2008 IP
  16. Supper

    Supper Peon

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    #16
    I'm not denying that you should do that. But the whole idea of the "virgin" thing in religion is for a man to be able to determine he is the first to get her, so when she gives birth, he knows who he rightfully to pass his land onto. There's no "metaphysical" ecstasy to having sex with virgins.
     
    Supper, Jun 12, 2008 IP
  17. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #17
    Actually according to your theory that human life is a product with ownership right, it is not irrational. Have you been to Best Buy where they have a table for products returned by customers? they take couple of dollars off just because the shrink wrap has been opened but product is still new.
    It is the same philosophy, women with shrink warp intact, will have a higher market value while the one without are considered used or demo product and demand lower price. :D
    Also since in most middle eastern and Asian cultures, the woman family will get paid when their daughter gets married, then if you remove the girl virginity, you are destroying their property and future profit and they will have a full right to take action against you.
    In this sense, these operations are nothing but taking the product to back of a store, run it through the shrink wrap machine to make it look like new, so they can get the full price. :D
     
    gworld, Jun 12, 2008 IP
  18. pizzaman

    pizzaman Active Member

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    #18
    correct me if i am wrong but don't cohen have to marry a virgin
     
    pizzaman, Jun 12, 2008 IP
  19. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #19
    Supper, thats not what i meant. I meant there is a spiritual bonding to love. Maybe you believe love has everything to do with what you can see in front of your eyes, but i believe its much more, and since i felt it before
    i know it for a fact even though its something i cannot really share with anyone to prove it, but on the other hand you cannot prove that love is just a chemical attraction between a man and a woman can you?

    When i marry it will be not for the attraction of my nerve endings to hers but there will be something special there.
     
    pingpong123, Jun 12, 2008 IP