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DMOZ is created for surfers not webmasters - Myth Busted!

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by Ivan Bajlo, Apr 16, 2007.

  1. #1
    Yep, this is another anti-DMOZ rant and since it considers my former categories I take it personally the way all my hard work is being undone.

    Case 1.

    RTR mode for Rome: Total war is biggest and most popular mod and can waste months of your life if you don't watch it one of the reason I've cooled that website while I was still editor (and NO I have no relation with them except as player). There website was down few months ago because they exceeded there bandwidth so Robozilla probably removed it. I've asked several times for it to be restored and somebody finally did... only it would have been better if they didn't.

    Rome Total Realism - Official site contains screenshots, downloads, forums, and links.
    http://dmoz.org/Games/Video_Games/Strategy/Turn-Based/Total_War_Games/Rome_-_Total_War/

    Huh, what is wrong with edit above? Well just about everything, it is mod website not game so that description is WRONG! :mad: That is the description which I wrote for REAL OFFICIAL website http://www.totalwar.com/community/rome.htm which become 404 when entire website was moved to flash.

    How can editor make such blunder? Maybe by not having a clue about topic? So this must be high quality of DMOZ editing which they are so proud of, no wonder I got kicked out I could never match it. :p

    BTW my RTR entry is still live on Google:

    Rome: Total Realism - Official website of RTR mod team which is doing complete redesign of original game in order to make it historically accurate as much as possible.
    http://www.google.com/Top/Games/Video_Games/Strategy/Turn-Based/Total_War_Games/Rome_-_Total_War/

    Case 2.

    In early March I've acquired domain http://www.calradia.com/, free hosting for M&B fan pages, since previous owner got bored and didn't want pay to renew domain and (reseller) hosting package and nobody else was interested, domain even ended up in grace period so I had to pay $18 for it since previous owner got free privacy pack which now need to be paid, at lest we got it before 8 days were up or GoDaddy would ask $80 for it. :eek: Hosting package also expired so all previous content was lost, but not much damage few forgotten websites and forums which kept getting spammed by porn (about some hot Philippine dude, shame on you poptalk :p).

    While I was editor I've created category for that game which also featured three links to that site and subdomains, also month or two ago I've submitted two missing links to that category but they have yet to be listed.

    http://dmoz.org/Games/Video_Games/Roleplaying/M/Mount&Blade/

    Now comes interesting part, two days after I showed this domain on DMOZ Resources forum it got removed! Darn I wish fish would be this easy to bait.

    Editor (same as the one above?) was so quick that missed subdomain which was removed only after I pointed to it, editor also didn't even bother to check other website in that category (there is still another broken link there) or to list new websites which I've submitted - such care for average surfer.

    So as MythBusters would say:

    Myths Busted!

    • DMOZ is made for average surfers! With few honorable exceptions it has no practical purpose since it seems it tries very hard to ruin anything that is worth anything making its use pointless for anything other then little PR boost.
    • DMOZ editors are slow! As the Case 2. has cleary show they can work at light speed when they want too, now if they only listed dozen links which I've submitted months ago and half of them aren't related to me in any way.
    • Humans do it better! It seems that if 99% of editors got replaced by Robozilla backlog would be zero and most categories would actually get regular maintenance.

    Myths Confirmed!

    • Less you know about topic your chances of becoming editor of that category improve exponentially.
    • Being honest will always get you into trouble at DMOZ, so lie, lie and lie, you don't own any website, know nothing about html especially seo, this gives you free hands to spam and abuse as much as you want.

    Myth Plausible!

    • DMOZ is being deliberately ruined so that AOL would drop it and somebody could buy it very cheap or even for free - considering what people are wiling to do just to get listed it wouldn't surprise me that somebody wants to get his hand of PR8 domain at any cost or in this case zero cost since he can get it by not doing anything.
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Apr 16, 2007 IP
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  2. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #2
    Wow Ivan, you've made a lot of assumptions to come up with all this. I'm stunned! Isn't it more plausible that none of these edits were related and that they were done by different editors at different times?

    Let me try to explain it to you again....

    I don't know anything about your points regarding this category....I always tell my grandsons "grandma doesn't know anything about video games". I don't know how to get SpongeBob past some difficult task and I don't know the first thing about Rome Total Realism.

    What I do know, and already told you, is that the edits you're upset about have nothing to do with any editor conspiracy against you. They were done at different times by different editors. Totally unrelated!


    This is normal. When domains change ownership the content often changes and we do check to see if that's the case. As a former editor, you should know this. Also, as the new owner of the site, you are aware that the content did indeed change.

    Whether it was because of your hosting difficulties or some other reason, it changed! You told me that and you told me the reason. The editor who unreviewed your site had no way of knowing why the content changed. Yes, you posted in a forum that you bought the site dmoz listed site, but you failed to mention that the content was temporarily lost due to the long laspe in time to change ownership. Additionally, you didn't even bother to put a notice on the site itself explaining the transition and temporary loss of content for your users...So how the heck is an ODP editor supposed to know if you don't even tell your users? :mad:

    I deny this. You started this complaint privately with me, and yes I removed the deeplink after you pointed it out, but I was honest with you and told you I removed it. I also told you why I removed it. It led to an error page! I also told you I passed the info along to a meta to be sure, which I did.

    And no, I didn't check every other site in the category when I removed the error that I pointed out to you. And no, I didn't review the sites waiting for review in the category. Why would I? I don't know the topic but I know an error page when I see one. :mad:

    If you think I've been abusive with your sites, feel free to file an abuse report!
     
    compostannie, Apr 16, 2007 IP
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  3. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #3
    This is a rant, as I said at the start, I'm not saying I'm right. :eek:

    That is fine, as long as you don't go around editing Total war category and write descriptions like "Horrible game with lot of blood and killing". ;)

    Where did I mention conspiracy in my post? I'm only talking about incompetence and total lack of care for real purpose of DMOZ.

    Base content didn't change and that is free hosting offer, if this happened during some regular category maintenance or if editor also listed two new website I've sent I wouldn't have cared less but the way it happened leaves serious doubt about "true motives".

    I haven't???? I have made sure that about dozen subdomains like http://waterloo.calradia.com/ which was only one listed in DMOZ got redirection to 404 page which clearly states:

    Unfortunately page you requested is no longer available.

    Calradia Site Hosting recently changed ownership but since new owner reacted little too late all of the old content got deleted when previous hosting and domain expired so only domain name was saved from Khergit I'm mean internet wasteland. Hopefully new content will more then make up the loss.

    If you previously hosted website here feel free to contact me for renewal and if you your new and looking for webspace for your Mount&Blade mod don't keep me waiting!​

    Anyone with average knowledge of English should be able to understand that.

    :confused: Who is talking about your action I'm talking about action of the first editor who only deleted two links to my website and without bothering to check the category, remove two more dead links and list two new links - in my book if you want to do the job then do it right and finish it or don't do nothing at all and leave it for somebody who will do it right! :mad:


    P.S.
    Darn, these DMOZ editors are catching my hooks even when there is no bait, now I puzzled why I couldn't catch even sardine while I was going fishing?
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Apr 16, 2007 IP
  4. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #4
    It sounds like a good plan, but in reality it can't always work that way. For example, when I got your message I was really involved with doing my laundry in real life, moving domains to a new host, editing in another category and responding to you. All at the same time.

    So, knowing that the link that was left was bad, I went in an unreviewed it. There's no way I would have had the time to fix the whole category. That's life. :(
     
    compostannie, Apr 16, 2007 IP
  5. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

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    #5
    Is this an axe grinding thread or an actual discussion on whether dmoz is "usable" or not?

    For the average surfer, I'd say dmoz is kinda difficult, just because the categories are so deep. I've gone browsing thru dmoz and couldn't find the section I was even looking for - probably put someplace else. But that's common in any deeply ordered system. It's not a dmoz specific problem. Business.com is tough to use, so is yahoo's directory.

    But I think directories, overall, are too tedious to use and soooo 1995. Just going to a search engine or something is a ton easier.
     
    lorien1973, Apr 16, 2007 IP
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  6. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

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    #6
    paidhosting, Apr 16, 2007 IP
  7. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #7
    Well I didn't find it funny at all. I spent 2 hours going over this with Ivan yesterday and it's like nothing I said to him penetrated.

    Next time Ivan brings up an issue with me, I'm going to ignore it, just like he ignored me.

    Yes Ivan, this is an error page. Do you really expect us to list a bunch of subdomains that redirect to an error page? Please! This is not listable content and you know it....or you should know it as an ex-editor!

    I already explained all this to you. Sorry Ivan, but that's life and I don't have the time to waste. Relax and get a grip on reality.
     
    compostannie, Apr 17, 2007 IP
  8. paidhosting

    paidhosting Peon

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    #8
    No annie i found the way he writes his rants funny, and how it puts his thoughts on the web :).
     
    paidhosting, Apr 17, 2007 IP
  9. compostannie

    compostannie Peon

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    #9
    I'd have no problem with that if he hadn't shown me the exact same thing in an IM and wasted so much of my time taking him seriously. I take that as a slap in the face, he should have skipped wasting my time and just posted the stupid rant. :mad:

    You see, this is the type of thing that editors who actually take the time to reply to messages and email are subjected to. It's this type of thing that convinces most editors to ignore submitters and people with problems. It's not worth the effort when this is the result of trying to be respectful when someone contacts us.
     
    compostannie, Apr 17, 2007 IP
  10. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #10
    Argh, when did I say that YOU should review that category? I don't except that from you since your not a gamer, if you did try to play M&B your every description would start with "Very violent game in which you ride around and kill people and horses die too! Keep your kids aways from it.". :D

    My opinion is that editor (I'm referring to editor in Case 2. NOT YOU) which decided to do editing in some category should at lest have a clue what the topic is about unless it is ONLY removal of DEAD links, if he/she doesn't have a clue he/she should make a post "Lot of dead and unreviewed links in category x" on related internal forum and someone familiar with topic should take care off it and not go on what looks like "I've removed Ivan's links" glory hunt. ;)

    It did, it cooled me down, you should have seen my first version of the rant, Hitler's speeches were nicer. :D

    Huh? What? Don't get it? Even I didn't list these subdomains while I was still editor because they didn't have enough content, most mods were never finished, I didn't except to be removed so I figured I could wait until they grow and list them later...

    If I posted first version of my rant then you would be mad and released your doggies at me.

    Well your messages did make me tone down my rant and drop out abuse and scream incompetence, I'm sorry if you thought this was attack on you I thought you got familiar with my anti-humor style of writing by now, so I dedicate my post to Andy. :D
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Apr 17, 2007 IP
  11. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #11
    Both. :eek:

    SE are easier but what I've started doing while I was still editor was cleaning up wiki articles and placing links into DMOZ, sounds logical but now it is useless - what is the point of having DMOZ link in wiki article including suggest site link when DMOZ category is DEAD and number of websites listed is only getting smaller! :mad:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount&Blade

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mount&Blade&diff=101327114&oldid=101316227

    Maybe this person was right - DMOZ is a link farm :D
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mount&Blade&diff=70559334&oldid=67922839
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Apr 17, 2007 IP
  12. helleborine

    helleborine Well-Known Member

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    #12
    Hey Ivan, there's probably fewer than 200 active editors (not counting editors with active accounts but barely makig edits), what are the chances one of them will know anything about this particular video game?

    The shocking answer:

    ZzeeEee--RrRrrrRrr-OooOooOowW

    And what are the chances of an editor application being approved for that category?

    ZzZzzZzzipPpp-OOoooo! Nada! Aucunes!

    Never gonna happen. The doors are shut.

    But guess what. It doesn't matter! Those links are worthless. It's a worthless directory!
     
    helleborine, Apr 17, 2007 IP
  13. Ivan Bajlo

    Ivan Bajlo Peon

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    #13
    I do not agree on this one, I could probably easily create a fake profile and get approved but I doubt anyone who is familiar with the game except me is even interest in being editor at DMOZ especially since it is much more fun to rant on forum. :rolleyes:
     
    Ivan Bajlo, Apr 17, 2007 IP