Pat Flynn of SmartPassiveIncome - Is he exaggerating his income claims?

Hi all,
I've been looking over the blog of a popular internet marketing guru, Pat Flynn, at www.smartpassiveincome.com. It is very helpful and generous with all its free advice and instructions for generating online passive income and creating websites to do that with. He is definitely very knowledgeable.

However, I can't help but be a bit skeptical of his personal success claims. First, he tells us in his intro 101 page that making money online is not easy. It takes a lot of hard work and time to build up. That's true. See here:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/passive-income-101/

But then he claims in his interviews and story that he made $8000 in his first month off of selling one ebook about how to pass an architect license exam. Then he says he made over $200,000 in his first year, and that he now makes over $30,000 monthly. That seems to contradict his teaching that it takes a lot of time and effort to make money online, doesn't it, since he claimed to get rich quickly.

Here are his monthly income reports where it shows his monthly build up of $8k a month to $30k:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/my-income-reports/

Here are his interviews where he makes these claims:

http://www.incomediary.com/pat-flynn
http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.com/1860/pat-flynn/
http://www.blogtrepreneur.com/2010/...ew-7905-55-from-one-ebook-in-the-first-month/

Now, I've been making money online for three years, and I know many others who are doing it too. So I know that making $8000 during your first month, especially selling one ebook, is an extraordinary claim. After three years, I'm only pulling in just over $900 a month, and that's after a slow steady traffic build up, that involved hard work and production of good content, with no secret formulas. So based on my experience, his claims of success and quick high profits are extraordinary.

He doesn't seem to have any proof of these claims. Yet all his fans seem to believe everything he says, based on their comments in his blog and on other third party blogs as well. To them, all his claims are true. If he says it, then it's true. Amazingly, on the internet, there are no critical reviews of him. There are dozens of blogs that praise him, with many positive comments under them, but no critical ones (could the bloggers have edited out all negative comments?). Everyone says he is the real deal. But how do they know? Where is the evidence or proof? Online, anyone can say anything.

His sample passive income business sites do look great though, and are ranked very high. So he definitely must have a lot of traffic coming in, which would give him good income. But there are many sites out there that look great with web 2.0 graphics and nifty wordpress themes, but they ain't making shit. Here are his online businesses so you can see them for yourself.

This one was created as part of an online contest with another internet marketing guru to see who could create a better new passive income site, and ended up generating $2000 a month for him:

http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

Here is his original online business that he became successful and rich off of:

http://www.greenexamacademy.com

On his blog teaching people how to make passive income, he gives a lot of free advice and information, which his fans say is very generous and altruistic of him. However, within his free advice blog are embedded various affiliate links to a number of website optimization products that claim to help get traffic to your site, which you have to pay for of course. So I wonder if that's why he's giving out so much free advice, to get commissions on these SEO products? It's hard to believe that he would do it for nothing or do it out of altruism.

Could it be that he is making more money off his "making passive income blog" than off of his online businesses themselves?

But what evidence is there to back his $30k a month income claims? Why hasn't he posted screen shots of his Adsense report earnings, or monthly PayPal transactions? But even those are easy to fake. Anyone can download or save a webpage offline, and then manipulate the HTML in it to produce any numbers they want. On the internet, anyone can claim anything. Even in Amway and other MLM's, lots of people making nothing are claiming to be doing well and pulling in thousands of dollars per month. It doesn't mean it's all true.

Furthermore, if Pat Flynn really made $30k a month, why is he always wearing cheap looking worn out T-shirts in his video interviews? See this one for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tRfvjDz3EE

In his self intro on his home page, same thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJIJ_6G9Z84#t=28s

In my experience, people who really are pulling in a lot of income do not like to draw public attention to it, unless they are celebrities. There are negative consequences to doing that. Especially if you are making a lot of money online, it is not in one's best interest to publicize it, for it will draw bad people, and incite others to follow your business model and create copycat versions of your site, which could potentially jeopardize your income. No rational person would want to do that.

In addition, there is an old adage that says: "You cannot make a lot of money by telling people the truth". I wonder if that applies here. Another witty quote says:

"The men the American public admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth." - H. L. Mencken

So it makes sense to be skeptical here, doesn't it?

What do you all think?

 

Btw, if you look at Pat's blog though, he isn't selling anything. He gives away all his advice for free. He does have affiliate links in his blogs. But there is no sales pressure from him. Check them out.

He seems nice. I just don't buy that he suddenly decided one day to monetize his site by selling an ebook, and then suddenly got $8,000 from it in his first month, and then every month after that, it multiplied. That's totally unrealistic. Even if his ebook was the greatest in the world, still. I have a fairly large following and if I came out with a new ebook tomorrow, I might get a few hundred dollars if I'm lucky. But not $8,000 in a month. No way. That's crazy. It's just too unrealistic. But everyone seems to believe him for some reason. He seems nice yeah, but his claims are extraordinary.

He admits that it takes a lot of work and patience to make money online. That's true. But in real life, you have to spend many months working hard making nothing before income starts rolling in. You don't work hard one month and start making $8,000 and then more and more each subsequent month. Working hard means you go without a net profit for months first, before you start making some money, and when you do, it trickles in. It doesn't start at $8,000. $8,000 a month is not the starting salary of someone "working very hard on the internet". No way. Get real.

So his claims don't make sense. But he somehow does have a ton of traffic now.

Check out his monthly income reports:

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/my-income-reports/

Wow. No way huh?

I don't understand why all his thousands of fans believe everything he says without question. Where are the critics and skeptics?

I noticed that none of his fans claim to be getting rich by learning from him. They all say that they are not earning anywhere near what he does, but that he inspires them to keep trying. lol

Also, why is there a photo of him with his baby in the top right corner of his blog?



Does holding a baby makes you look more credible and legit as a good family man? lol Oh I see, I think he's doing that so that the stay at home moms in America who are trying to make an online income can relate to him. lol

Maybe I ought to have a picture of me holding my baby, to look more credible too. lol

 

I got an email from Pat Flynn to my skeptical questions about him. Here is what he wrote:

What do you think? Does he sound honest and genuine?

Is he bluffing about showing me his earnings through Skype? What would happen if I did that? Wouldn't he just show me the affiliate earnings he gets from his money making blog?

In any case, here is my response I wrote back to him:

"Hi Pat,
Thanks for replying to my questions. But there are still a number of problems with your explanations that don't add up.

Even if you had a following on your architecture exam site for 2 years, that still would not make it possible to suddenly sell an ebook and make $8,000 in the first month. I've had a following since 2003, and it's gotten fairly large, but if I came out with a new ebook tomorrow, I might make a few hundred dollars in a month. But definitely not $8,000. Real online income doesn't work that way. As you said, it takes a lot of hard work and patience. True. But what you forgot to mention is that most or all people doing this, spend several months earning peanuts or nothing at first, and then after that, the money starts TRICKLING in. But it doesn't start at $8,000 and then multiply every month thereafter, as you've claimed on your blog. No way. Eight grand is NOT the starting salary or income of an online entrepreneur who has just begun to monetize his/her website. Income comes slowly, then snowballs over time. But I've never seen a beginning trickle of $8,000 just falling into one's lap. It just doesn't work that way. You said it happened right after you monetized your site. But still, even if you had monetized it for years, one ebook isn't going to sell that much to earn $8,000 even if you had a large following beforehand.

A skeptic in one of my forums had this to say regarding your claim:

I hope you understand my point. But anyway, you claim on your blog that now you get around $30k a month. Can you tell me then, where the biggest chunk of that $30k comes from? Which website does the largest portion of that income come from? I'd like to see it and assess it. And have my experts assess it as well.

Also, here's another key question. Does most of your income come from the "how to make money" blog itself, or from your real online businesses? In other words, does most of your income come from teaching others how to make online income? That's a crucial question.

If I went on Skype with you, what would you show me? Affiliate earnings for the smart passive income site and products? I know you are getting a ton of traffic on that site. The rankings show it. I'm just not sure if your income claims are realistic or not.

If I were to get on Skype, would you be able to show me the $8,000 sales you made from that one ebook? Could you take me to your PayPal screen and show me the $8,000 payments you received in that one month when you first started, just for that ebook?

About the cheap t-shirts, well I didn't mean to be shallow or superficial. But it's common sense. A person with a 30k a month income wouldn't dress like that. They'd be wearing designer clothing. They'd wear what Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt wear when they go out or do interviews. I certainly would. It's just basic logic.

You said:

I don't agree with that at all, and neither would any intellectuals or freethinkers that I know of. People have always been gullible and prefer fakeness over truth. Truth isn't popular and doesn't sell. That's the way it's always been throughout history. It hasn't changed today. To have a lot of friends among the mainstream, or fit into most types of groups, you have to develop superficial personalities and lose your identity. That's the nature of groups and group think. The most authentic people tend to be hermits, for they do not have to lose their identity to fit in with others. They can just be themselves. Any time one is in a group, one loses their identity. Every great philosopher and thinker, from Arthur Schopenhauer to Mark Twain to Ayn Rand has commented on that. Popular people tend to be the fakest and have to BS more. Authentic people are less popular and do not like to BS, so they have fewer friends, but the friends they do have will be higher quality friends. That hasn't changed today. But that's another subject.

As to me posting my questions on your friends' blogs, well I was just trying to stir up some discussion. I saw that all your friends' blogs had only positive comments about you, so I knew that all the negative ones must have been edited out. Thus, I figured that my comments would be edited out as well, so I just went ahead and posted them anyway, since it only took seconds. I figured if I was lucky, the comments wouldn't be moderated and might stir up some discussion on a few blogs. That was my tactic. But I'm sure all your friends removed my comments or did not approve them anyway.

However, I did post a skeptical review of you on several of forums, including two of my own, and also my blog, which you already left a comment on. In the review, I included key links to your sites, so forum members could see your blog and claims, and make up their own mind. If you like, I can post your email response in those forums, so people can read your answers to my questions and get your side of things. Would that be ok?

Thanks for your response and time, and I apologize for antagonizing you.

Regards,
Winston"

 

Here is a picture of him.

 

Ok I think I have this figured out. This guy makes money by teaching others how to make money right? If so, then the key question is:

Does he have successful profitable businesses OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business?

Of course he claims to. Here are his other online businesses that he claims are profitable. Have a look at them. Do you think they are really that profitable?

http://www.greenexamacademy.com
http://www.securityguardtraininghq.com

What do you think?

However, if he's not really successful outside of his "how to make money" blog, then isn't that a little shady or unethical? I mean, he is basically projecting to his money making fans, that he is a successful online entrepreneur OUTSIDE of his "teaching people how to make money" business, right? If that is not true, then that would make his claims unethical and deceptive. Right? Don't MLM's work the same way?

As I know, there are several primary ways one can make money online:

1. Provide a product or service that people are willing to pay for.
2. Serve as an online middle man and outsource work to others, and earn a cut from it.
3. Provide good web content that draws significant regular traffic. Then earn advertising revenue and affiliate commissions from that web traffic, and product/service sales as well. (that's what I do)
4. Do freelance work for others, such as freelance writing, editing, video editing, etc. on a contractual basis.
5. Provide some kind of personal service, such as consulting, teaching English to foreign students via Skype, etc.

Do you think making money by teaching people how to make money, falls into any of those categories?

I've never heard of monetizing one ebook and then getting $8,000 in the first month from it. I don't think even a super genius could pull that off, and even if he could, it would be a one in a million shot. The money usually trickles in slowly and builds up gradually. It doesn't start at $8,000 and go uphill from there. That sounds more like the promise of a get rich quick scheme (even if they don't call it that, but then again, who does these days?).

But anyway, what do you make of his $30,000 a month income claim? I'm sure he must make some decent money with all the high web traffic he gets. But is $30k a month an exaggeration?

Also, if he is so good, then how come none of his fans claim to be making what he makes? They all say they are only making a little, but that they derive "inspiration" from listening to him everyday. lol. What do you make of that?

On another note:

By the way, the owner of the free dating site, www.plentyoffish.com, Markus Frind, claims to make $10,000 A DAY just from paid Google links. Would Google really pay him that much, $10k a day, even if he had millions of people coming to his site everyday? Is that farfetched or realistic? That seems like an awful lot, even if you did have millions of hits everyday. Here is the story about him and his $10k a day income on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3kZlXq2xYE

An article about him in the NY times about making $10 million a year from his website.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13digi.html?pagewanted=all

What do you think?

 

For those of you trying to be your own boss, here are some great inspirational quotes I found that justifies your venture as being sane and rational.

"What's the point of working to make a living, if most of your living consists of working?" - Pat Flynn, Internet Marketing Guru

"When you work for someone, you trade time for dollars. But if you invest your time into creating a business, you produce a cash flow operation that works for YOU!" - Pat Flynn, Internet Marketing Guru

So true when you think about it, isn't it? And it makes so much sense too. Why live as a slave, instead of trying to find a way out of it so you can be free?

Feel free to forward these quotes to everyone you know.

 

I have been following Pat Flynn for a long time, and I don't know about the details of the numbers when it comes to his income, but I strongly believe that he is a man we can all trust. I've had some great conversations with him, and I know a lot of people who are recommending him as well. And, he's been giving presentation to a fairly big conference lately and his podcast is up for awards and is very popular on iTunes.

So, even though I don't know all the details, Pat seems to be a truly honest guy who knows a lot about marketing and earning money online. I love that he shares everything, and I have been recommending him and his blog to all my readers for months.

 

Here is a post I wrote on the David Icke forum about why making money online is simple in concept, but not in practice:

"It's only simple in concept. But in practice, it's another matter. You have to offer something that people are willing to pay for, such as a product or a service. Or you have to have very good content on your website that draws traffic so you can put ads on it and make money, and affiliate commissions too.

This site is a good example of a site with great content that draws a ton of traffic and makes good ad revenue. It also offers David Icke's books, which his fans are willing to pay for, and makes money from that too. So it offers content and products.

Not everyone can just start a site and do that. It's not that easy in practice. Sure someone can blog about something that interests them, but that's not enough, because for every topic there are many other sites out there that are better, and you can't compete with them, so you won't get enough traffic, etc. For example, if you blog about cooking, there are many other blogs and sites out there that are established in cooking, which you as a newcomer could never compete with. So you will not get enough traffic to make money off of.

Or you can do a niche topic or unique one. That's what I did. I started two very unique sites, so that there was no competition. I also had a pre-existing email list and fan base to direct to my new sites. And that worked for me.

If I didn't pick a unique topic or idea, I would not have been able to compete with others sites out there. For example, there are already many conspiracy sites, such as this one, so a new one wouldn't have a good chance of becoming too popular.

But it was all slow and gradual, not dramatic as the internet marketing gurus claim."

 

You know, I just re-read Pat Flynn's response to me above. And I get the impression that what he is saying is, "It's ok and natural to be skeptical, as long as you believe me when I reassure you that I'm telling the truth about everything."

Hmmm. ::: scratching head ::: I don't know about you, but that sounds a bit circular doesn't it? I mean, think about it. EVERYONE in the world will tell you that they are not a con artist or liar. Everyone. So then who is a con artist then? lol. I mean, if you believe what you hear, then there is no such thing as a con artist or a liar in the world right? They don't exist right? lol. Everyone claims not to be one, after all. This is a lesson in gullibility and critical thinking.

Likewise, every MLM, including Amway, will say, "We are not a pyramid scheme. We are a legitimate business opportunity." ALL of them will say that. They all acknowledge that there are pyramid schemes out there, but each one of them is not one of them. lol. So, if we are to believe whatever they say, then pyramid schemes don't exist right? lol You see what happens when you believe whatever people tell you?

One time, I went to a timeshare presentation in Sedona, Arizona. At the beginning of the presentation, the speaker told everyone, "Don't you hate those high pressure timeshare sales presentations?" and everyone nodded. Then he said, "Well we aren't like that here. We are different." But what do you think happened right after that? Yep, you guessed it! They proceeded to be exactly that - a high pressure timeshare sales presentation! They badgered me, wouldn't take no for an answer, and then ended up insulting me! What fricking hypocrites! Playing cheap tricks to make us think they were different. That was so deceptive and low.

The lesson is: DON'T BELIEVE WHATEVER YOU HEAR! QUESTION EVERYTHING! LEST YOU BE TAKEN IN!

Btw, I asked a friend of mine who is a retired mental health counselor about Pat Flynn's response above, and here was his response:

 

Are you in Love with this guy? How cares if he's making that much money or not or what he looks like. You've said he is providing you with great info. Take the info for what it's worth. Stop over analyzing the guy!

 

Logical Reasons why I don't think Pat Flynn really makes $30k a month

I got to thinking and realized some logical reasons why Pat Flynn probably doesn't make $30k a month in online passive income as he claims on his blog. It's all very simple when you apply basic logic and common sense. Let me explain.

First, think about this. Suppose you were making $30,000 a month from online passive income. Would you do anything to jeopardize such a big cash cow? Of course not. But if you were to publicize it on a web page, as Pat Flynn did, you'd be doing just that. When you publicize how much money you are making, there are undoubtedly going to be a lot of envious people out there who will either try to emulate you, or sabotage your enterprise. Since you don't know who is out there, why would you take such a risk and expose yourself like that? Furthermore, if you were making it that big in online income, you'd have it made and have NOTHING TO GAIN in publicizing it or drawing too much attention to it.

In other words, if you were really making $30k a month, you'd have NOTHING to gain by publicizing it and A LOT TO LOSE!

But on the other hand, suppose you were making a lot less than $30k a month. In that case, you would have something to gain by exaggerating your income (which anyone can do) and claiming that you make $30k a month. By doing so, you attract attention to your site, which increases traffic hits, thus increasing your online revenue and affiliate commissions. And you also get a large group of followers and fans willing to do anything you say (which means they will buy any product or service you suggest). And whoila! Bingo!

So in that case, you would have A LOT TO GAIN and NOTHING to lose! See how that works? It's simple logic.

Second, I've noticed that whenever I email Pat Flynn, he usually replies within an HOUR! This happens whether I email him late at night or in the afternoon. What this seems to indicate, is that he is online all day and evening, trying to make money and answering emails. If that's so, then he is WORKING HARD - which means he is earning Active Income, rather than Passive Income. LOL

Now, if his income were truly passive, why would he need to be online all the time? That doesn't make sense. If he had a passive income of $30k a month, he would be in the Florida Keys or Cancun sipping a margarita by the poolside or beachside, and not be online much. Come on now. Get real. This appears to be a logical contradiction.

What do you think? Isn't that suspicious? Do these logical reasons make sense?

 

It wouldn't come as a surprise if many gurus are exaggerating their claims