The pioneers smoked nargila (shisha) and played backgammon, the arabs sang in Yiddish. A new research reveals many activities in which arabs and jews spent together at the beginning of the 20th century, despite the criticism from both leaderships. Arabs and Jewish in a Jaffa coffee shop in 1921. The jewish leadership appointed supervisors to list all jews who spend time in arab coffee shops. A century ago, in 1909, the "HaTzvi" newspaper edited by Eliezer Ben Yehuda published an article criticizing a bad common habit rooted amongst the new immigrants who came to the land of Israel in the second Aliyah. According to which, shortly after the arrival of the jewish youngsters from Europe to Jaffa, many of them were seen sitting in coffee shops and playing "stripers" with the arabs, or backgammon as it was once called. "The jews learn many things from the arabs, including those games", noted the annonymous author, and continues "If the new immigrants who came to the land are ashamed to play cards outdoors with the arabs, they are less ashamed to play backgammon ... this is a disgrace to see jewish crowds. The jewish people has always seeked spiritual food for a living, his amusements and pleasures were only in noble things which involve emotion or intellect". "HaTzvi" was not the only one who noticed the constantly increasing popularity of the arab leisure and free-time habits among the zionist immigrants. But for the leaders of the Jewish community in the land of Israel, the smoking of shisha even on Sabbath (Saturday) posed even a bigger danger than playing backgammon. Already in 1891, during the First Aliyah the problem of the wide spread true friendships between arabs and jews were discussed in the zionist leadership. Also the arab leaders spared themselves with no hard words of criticism. Mr. Schmerling, a jewish leader, announced that "there are plenty of jewish people who sit on Saturday in the kahwe (coffee) shops" and smoke "nargila" (shisha). The jewish committee has decided to appoint supervisors which will list the youngsters who spend time in the coffee shops and hand their names to the rabbis. The popularity of shisha and board games is just an example from the wide range of phenomena described in Dr. Boaz Lev-Tov's recently completed research of the free-time habits of jews in the land of Israel from the first Aliyah until 1914. Boaz Lev-Tov, a lecturer at the Beit-Berl college and the Kibbutz's seminar, has studied this subject for with doctorate thesis in Tel-Aviv university, under the supervision of prof. Anita Shapira. Celebrating the Revolution The research has revealed, that in the beginning of Zionism there were tight cultural relationships between the jewish immigrants and the arab living in the land. "I have realized that the relationships between the two communities were much more tight than we have previously thought. Jews and Arabs did not restrain themself at all to spend time with each other", says Lev-Tov, "despite very strong forces, mainly from both leaderships, who put a great effort to create separation between jews and arabs. The organized zionists were afraid that the presence in Israel will be like another diaspora, like the communities worldwide. But the daily life has its power, which dictated friendships and combining together, especially with the arab elite. The jews arrived and discovered that it is not a no-mans land: there are also progressive arabs and cultural and political things happen. In the celebrations of the Young Turk Revolution in July 1908, the cultural cooperation between jews and arabs reached a noteworthy peek, when massive parades of arabs took place all over the land. In parallel, they started to form their own national identity and to display it. The jews gladly joined the festivity. A document one revealed in which a jewish young man describes that "everybody was feeling like they were natural born brothers. Everybody was dancing and singing and walking arm to arm: arabs and jews, sepharadic and ashkenaz. A spirit of brothership and togetherness flew in our vains". Dr. Lev-Tov adds: "The euphoria which prevailed at the beginning later turned into restraint, as the new born arab national identity was growing stronger and stronger". Riding displays in Weddings In weddings and events in the jewish villages the young has adopted the arab habit of horseback riding exhibitions and shooting in the air as a display of joy. "During the whole festival, the shootings did not stop for a moment and they were very noisy", as described by a member of the village Rehovot in 1912. But it were not only the jews who adopted arab free-time habits. The arabs were eager, in many occations, to take part in the jewish cultural and religious events. For example, in Purim 1908, there was a theater piece by the jewish theater group of Petah Tikva, in the Hebrew and Yiddish langauges. A spectator who attended the show reported that the arabs who arrived to watch enjoyed mostly the Yiddish show, much more than the Hebrew one. And the end of the event the arabs stood with the rest of the audience when "Hatikva" (later to become the anthem of Israel, chaostrivia) was played and sung along. According to Lev-Tov's thesis, "The audience in most jewish theater shows had also a considerable arab presence. They were small merchants and workers, sometime living inside the jewish village, and some of them could speak Yiddish very well." In fact, upon arrival of the very first jewish settlers to the land of Israel, the members of the Bilu organization in summer of 1882, they were accepted by a saloon dance of the daughters of their arab landlord. Haim Hissin, one of the leaders of Bilu, told that when they visited the Jaffa orchard owner Anton Ayob, "his son was playing the clarinet. The bilu's joined the party as well and everybody were dancing. After the dancings the landlord asked his daughters to sing in arabic for everybody, and the gladly sang". Dr. Lev-Tov says: "The arab elite was beginning to undergo a processes of modernization, and showed a great deal of curiosity towards such very educated youngsters who came from Europe, whom them have never seen before" He adds: "There was a competition between the two communities, but there was also a lot of working together and mutual contributions. It was only much later when the fierce bonds were replaced by blood and hate. But in the first 5 decades, many aspects of life were conducted together. One day, once this bloody terrible conflict will be part of history, both people will be more willing to recognize the great importance of the mutual cultural influences." source (my translation for you guys) Since then many things went wrong, I will write more about it later in some other post maybe The fault is equally on both sides, and as always, its the leaderships who are to blame. This place could have been heaven on earth. But too bad there are people involved, and people are stupid creatures driven by primitive and selfish instincts.
It will come sooner or later. But there are too many people, also on this forum, who are working very hard to make this time come as late as possible.
And you are in that group too judgeing by this thread: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1317766 Posting half thruths and lies can't get us any closer to peace you are talking about in this thread... Look at your mirror first.
Have you read the thread? I guess you didn't. There is nothing which is not true in that thread, and here is how I ended it: your apology is accepted.
Here is a long shot, how about Palestine supporters and Israel supporters look at the history of the land and realize that it is a treasure..
let me start by wishing happiness for your new baby and family, may s/he be blessed with power to know truth, and courage to follow it, the post, might be news for you or some, but not for Palestinians or Arabs, they know that they lived peacefully with Jews, and Jews (true Jews not Zionists scum of Earth) never denied this, you can check Jewish books, for more examples like the one you included, in Palestine, and many other places in the Islamic world, during different times in history, let me know if you need links, nobody with a sane mind wants his kid to be born in a non-peaceful environment, you do not want it for your kid, but maybe OK for so many Israelis to want it for other people kids, they want peace for their kids, but they also want to keep what they stole from others illegally, and they wanted the kids whom they expelled to disappear from the surface of Earth no matter how, as long as they are safe themselves, they want the same for the kids of those kids they expelled, and the new generations of kids, and so on, we can sing for peace, we can say so sweet words about peace, we can dream about it, we can ......... etc but true peace won't come that way, I believe when there is justice there will be peace and it will start when somebody who knows very well that he is staying in a property from which some kids years ago been forced to leave to meet their destiny - decided to admit the bad they did, and decided to fix it.
Are you sure? That's a pure lie and nothing but a lie. And it's on 1st page out of 5. Guess on other pages there's more lies. Or you wanna claim that you can back up your lie with credible source?
yeah that's true, Arabs (Christians or muslims) don't hate Jew in fact, there are many Jew Arabs lived and still living in Arabic countries, mostly in Yemen. but sadly many people mistaken between Jew and Israel. I want Israel to stop killing my people and out of my country and I don't mind living with Jews, even eating with them in the same plate
You always play the same track on the same CD imad. I will try to answer and please on your next post play a different track, or maybe a different CD? It amuses me to hear your words of hatred and words of peace, or what you call "peace", in the same sentence. The real jews are the zionists, as zionists are the majority amongst the jewish people. What is a true muslim? one that volunteers in the Israeli military, or Osama bin-laden? saying "true jew" , "true christian" or "true muslim" is meaningless, stupid, and could come only from preachings of some backward mosque which supposedly you attend, and not from anything that even pretends to be intellectual. When I read those words of yours, I think of this, and see you there instead of the poor child, "a true Muslim". The common muslim teaching of great peace and equal rights for the jews under islamic control is a big lie, please don't make me write a big thread about the prosecutions of jews in Islamic countries. I will just name 1 fact: after the establishment of Israel in 1948, the majority of the jews from all arabs countries (iraq, iran, yemen, egypt, morocco, libya, etc') were the first to flee and arrive. Don't piss me off or I will write a full thread about this big lie In my next post I will describe the years 1926-1948, at those years, the nice arabs from the present thread decided that actually the jews numbers are increasing too much and started to massacre and slaughter (one of many examples). Historically interesting, without the arab massacres in jews, Israel would never exist, because the massacres forced the jews, farmers musicians and scientists, to learn how to defend themselves, knowledge and organization which have come to be very handy in 1948. There are many Israeli right wing people which I debate with, that claim that peace can be reached without evacuating the settlements. I tell them: man, u're dreaming. Peace you make with the other side, can you imagine that the other side would accept it? The same I say to you. It is a concesous in Israel, that no refugees will return to the pre-1967 borders. If you want to make peace with the Israelis, and not with yourself, you should accept this. you wish to revert history like it didn't happen. History can not be undone. There fault for their miserable destiny of the "arabs of palestine" decribed in the thread, that changed their name to "palestinians" couple of decades later, lied also in their own hands. A creative solution should be seeked. I am a peace activist demostrating to evacuate all settlements and establish a palestinian state in the 1967 territories, even a little bit more in south region. The refugees (I assume this includes you?) should return there and live happily and peacefully ever after. The total separation between jews and palestinians is a necessary condition from practical reasons. I support it not on racial religious or ethnic grounds. Apart from the grave cultural differences, to much hate ("Zionists scum of Earth") exists at the moment which makes living together impossible. Imagine it like this, you go to the market and have a fist fight with a guy. What is the next step? you spend all your free time with him? no you won't. first make up. let the flames disappear, and maybe later you can hang out and have fun with him. In my vision, at the beginning there will be "Israel" and "palestine" in the 1967 area with half of jerusalem, living peace and cooperating to solve the refugee problem in the new palestinian country. If this will work, then for sure one day the borders will fall, and Israel-Palestine will be like, say, USA-Canada.
Identify both Judaism, and Zionism, and you will get your answer, I did not ask you questions, so you tell me "I will try to answer" A criminal, is a criminal, who deserves punishment, whether he is Jew, Muslim, or else, and Zionism is a political movement that is similar to Nazism, a racist movement not only against Arabs but also against Jews, like Eastern Jews, and Ethiopian Jews, nobody would like to live with such people, when they hold so much hate for ALL others, it is notable that there is a big interest in painting Zionists as Jews by Zionists, to mislead people into thinking that being against Zionism is considered antisemitism, and falsley blackmail sympathy, by making use of the antisemitism and the injustice that happened to Jews in the Holocaust, to cause suffer, ethnic cleansing and more injustice against Palestinians and Arabs in general, since the illegal establishment of Israel, till these days, and this is despite the fact that Zionist movement did not move a finger to help Jews in Nazi Germany, even though I know that you know all this, let me know if you need proofs for any of the info mentioned here in my post, I will gladly provide you with them. do Jews lie now? I know Zionists do and are proud about it, not sure about these Jews in the example links below, are they nuts? liars? Muslims and Jews: a historical perspective that reveals surprises Jews Under Islamic Rule
1) I can't "identify" judaism, nobody can. It is a complicated issue. I know that in your very narrow & imaginary world, it sounds perfectly reasonable that a palestinian Muslim refugee from Jordan should be the one who can really define who is jewish and who is not. 2) I don't hold hate for nobody. So this makes me a non-Zionist? 3) 99% of the jews of the world support Israel, with words, with actions, and with money. So if less than 1% are "true jews", ahm 4) About the holocaust: You keep repeating this very stupid big lie again and again. Even people who know very little about jews and judaism should know, that jews, unlike arabs, will never kill each other and do everything to help each other. There must be a reason that we survived 2000 years of prosecution, no?. Read the story of Masada. It fell only because jews decided its better to kill themselves than to kill other jews. Just like the arabs, no? Zionist movement did whatever it could, which is very little, to help jews in Nazi Germany. Here is the most famous one of hundreds of examples. At that time, the newspapers reported the rumours of the holocaust in the inside pages, nobody believed this could be true. Even the people who lived near the death camps, didn't really know whats going on. only late in 1944 it was clear what was going on. but it was already too late. I know that the facts dont impress you, you know better. If I were you, I would feel shame to repeat such utter nonsense, displaying grave ignorance. Always the same track of the same CD. And you repeat words you hear in the mosque or from other people, without having even read even a single history book (no, the quran is not included). you can not think for yourself imad, and I'm sorry for you. Follow the wikipedia links in this thread and other threads mine and references therein, and learn something. Please forgive me for not reading your junk links. I don't read islamic sites. Since naturally, the authors take some of the facts, leave the other "forgotten", and manipulate them to deliver their own message, which is the sole purpose of the text. The purpose of the text is not to deliver all of the truth. Refer me to wikipedia, cnn, nytimes, washington post, australian daily, BBC, der spiegel, or whatever, and I promise to read every word. I told you not to piss me off, so there will be thread soon about the prosecution of jews in Islam, backed up with facts and not quotes from extreme nationalist Israeli sites.
Sorry. That was complete bullshit aboodeh. there are less than 500 jews living today in Yemen, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenite_Jews One of them was murdered during operation "Cast Lead". The murderer stabbed him 10 times and yelled "Allah ackbar" The 1st google result on this subject, sorry its a jewish site, which I never quote, only western, free, neutral sites. but here it is: http://thejewishstar.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/yemen’s-jews-living-in-danger/
Comeplete bullshit again my dear muslim friends. Today you are very good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit#Territory Ok sorry, it was not "all", it was just 94%. but why take 94%? its better to continue living in despair and poverty and raise more generations of kids with hate, its the Palestinian dream.
First, I'm not muslim and second, I'm sure not your friend. I wouldn't like to have liars for friends and we sure can choose our friends, right? Again, you posted a lie and now trying to hide that fact by trying to be sarcastic (but you fail at that). If territory isn't such big issues why don't Jews give up on Haifa? Oh wait! When it comes to you than territory is big issues but when it comes to Palestinians it isn't and they only want to hate you... Ever heard of double standards? I bet you did! Should I continue to point out your lies in thread for which you claim that there wasn't any lies and yet admiting that there was some?