Hi All. Today is the annual holocaust memorial day in Israel. About one third of the jewish people (between 4.5 to 7 million people, with the "commonly" known number of 6) were murdered by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between the years 1939-1945. Today there are about 13 million jews in the world, 0.02% of the world population. Researchers say, that without the holocaust, it would have been somewhere between 20-32 million. Today the "UN committe against racism" is taking place in Geneve, Switzerland. Since this committee is a theater of the haters of Israel, it is being boycotted by most of the western countries including the US, Canada, German, UK, Italy, and so on. The president of Iran, Achmedinejad, is the world's most famous holocaust denier. He has called once again today in Geneve for the destruction of Israel. Besides the declaration, the fundamental Irani regime is working around the clock to develop nuclear weapons. Many Iranian officials, including Achmedinejad, are not even trying to disguise the purposes of the weapons. When he says that "Israel will soon disappear", we in Israel tend to believe him, that these are his intentions. I argue that if the world powers would have believed Hitler in the early 1930 (who claimed in "mein kampf" and in speeches, that he is looking for a "living space" for the German people), and acted on time (when he was building the mighty army in 1934-1938), WWII could have been prevented. The world is acting against Iran, but very little, on the diplomatic level. When I was in school, they told me that History is learned in order to learn from it and not repeat the mistakes done before. However, I'm afraid that this is not implemented in 2009. If a nation calls for the destruction of another, and develops weapons of mass destruction at the same time, why not believe them, and stop them today before its too late?
oh the crocodile tears ! world is fed up with this old fairytale , try something new why not stop a nation who is not 'calling' but has actually destroyed Palestinians a number of times and and take back our rightful possessions ?
I don't see how the palestinians come in the discussion. I did not mention the palestinians. The palestinians have nothing to do with Israel-Iran Issue. May I ask what exactly do you define as a "fairytale"? What is are the "rightful possessions" that have been taken? and under which law their possession is defined?
Then let me explain it to you, as slowly as I can. Ahmedinejad is repeatedly calling for the destruction of the state of Israel, the only jewish state, probably to be performed in the future with nuclear weapons, causing mass murder. Holocaust - a mass murder of the european jewish population 60 years ago. Now its your turn to explain me what the poor palestinians have to do with this thread.
What are you trying to do with Holocaust ? What is my (others) duty for Holocaust ? You know it is sad that you use victims in your politics to gain some credits. If you really believe that holocaust happent, then I am pretty sure you will understrand what happent in Gaza .. But ..but you dont understand it. You understand holocaust means only killing by gas . The way of killing doesnt change meaning of the act . If there were not any gas will it be ok ? for example if germans bombed will it be not holocaust ? Stop killing innocent ppls , if you really feel the pain of Holocaust
Thats a great question. The question I've been asking, and not getting any answers from New or the others is, what exactly do you want? What would make you happy enough to shut down the suicide bombings and rocket barrage?
ziya......This thread is about Iranian nuclear effort and Israel. Not about the very poor and miserable palestinians. If I will make a thread about the salsa and latin dance scene in Tel-Aviv, will you reply and accuse me "killing innocent people" as well? Do you support the destruction of the state of Israel with nuclear weapons (or not nuclear weapons)?
You cant take any of the countries, nations in a region without related to each other. No I dont. And I dont support killing of Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghanis and etc .. I cant understand what makes it differ of killed Iraqis/Palestinians and killed Jews ?They are both civil victims. And I am against nuclear weapons of israel criaminalist regime . Your politicians called to use nuke on Palestine .. It is a danger to the world and Palestine Your question : Do you support the destruction of the state of Israel with nuclear weapons (or not nuclear weapons)? My answer : No i dont support.. As I dont support destruction of Gazans.. But sadly it had done
Yes, you are right. In general, you can not separate between the countries in a region as an acting force. However, in this case, you can. The Iranians are interested, from their fundamental islamic ideaology, in the destruction of Irsael. In contradiction to what they say to justify their fundamental hate, the couldn't care less about the Palestinians. If a palestinian is calling for peace and reconciliation with Israel, for the Iranians he is as good as dead. I have heared of many shipping of weapons from Iran and training to terrorists there (probably what you call "freedom fighters"), But I have never heared of a school built with Iranian money, or a basketball hall, or a computing center. They barely have this kind of stuff in Iran. There is a small problem, you see. Attached I put an image from the website in your second signature link. It is a map of what you call palestine? I don't see a cross of david on any part of it. Maybe I need new glasses, or you DO support the destruction of Israel? p.s. An organization is not a "humanitarian" organization if it has political opinions on disputed issues (given by the map). Your organization should be fair to rename itself to "Pro-Palestinian Turkish brotherhood", or something like that.
It is a day to reflect on the evils of war, segregation, and aggressive government campaigns against a particular group.
period : Palestinians are the reason behind Ahmedinejad's call for destruction ...period Otherwise why isn't he calling destruction of Jamaica instead of isreal?
Because there are not enough Jews to kill in Jamaica to make a difference? So by this you are saying Ahmedinejad wants to wipe Israel from the face of the earth as some sort of humanitarian gesture to Palestinians?
I am not sure if the new generations who came after ww2 do actually their researches about ww2, or just take it from history books and articles which been wrote by the victors, the well known saying of "victors write history" should be taken in consideration when reading history or part of it, I personally think that the holocaust actually happened but it worth to study it's reason, I do not think it is limited to antisemitism, and I m very sure about 2 things here: first it has been exaggerated so much, it did not happen to Jews only, and the numbers are highly doubted, knowing that the Jews numbers before and after the holocaust did not have a huge drop. second it has been used to commit other horrible crimes elsewhere, starting by occupying else land by force, and all what came with it of terrorism, massacres, killing, and expelling people out of their home land and properties, and the continuous wars that threat the stability of world peace until these days. this pattern is not new, if somebody is interested more he can refer to similar incidents in history, in which a side will play the victim role so he can gain sympathy to commit crimes or at least silence the conscious of people who actually care about justice. The Jews themselves are demanding that the Zionists answer the question regarding their role in the holocaust, and why they did not help the victims when they were able to help, still they got no answers: why not? somebody may ask? since when a cow's life worth more than the lives of million of Jews? He could easily helped moving them to England, but they gave the young ones two options: Palestine, or die. the old one got only one option: die, so later they can be used to gain sympathy as we see till these days. Again, Palestine or die, even though it was much easier and less costly to move them to a closer place, even if temporarily. most interesting is the above quote, they even did not want others who have conscious, to help rescuing their brethren, they wanted them to die, so they can keep using them till now. the above quotes and more about what so-called holocaust industry can be found here: Jews Against Zionism
why World Zionist Organization refused to participate in Evian, France, In 1938 ? and one quote : "[Ben-Gurion stated] 'If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, but only half of them by transporting them to Palestine, I would choose the second " interesting, is not it
please look at those pics on a link : modern Holocausts !(hard bloody picts ) Look at each picture, and try to feel their pain, think of them like one of your family members , think of dead kids like your own kids .. don't skip any of the pictures there (there are many pictures ) And be brave to call it modern Holocaust !
Imad. Mar7aba. 33% is not a huge drop? hmmm... I hope you don't play the stock market... the "magic" number of 6 million is a symbolic number (taken from words of the Nazi leader Eichmann, the only man to be executed by the state of Israel in the early 60's). The world historians' estimates range between 4.5 to 7, as I said in the thread. And yes, it did not happen to Jews only, also gypsies, polish, handicapped and gay Germans were murdered in the death camps. However, the vast majority of the victims were jewish. The main sources for the number of victims are the German papers collected after WWII, and Yad Vashem, the Israeli holocaust memorial institute, that collects all available pictures, names, life stories, holocaust destiny, and any other info one can get over each individual. For help, I suggest you make a trip to Auschwitz, take a polish (not jewish, not Israeli) tour guide, and hear and see what happened there. I simply don't understand why the haters of Israel keep repeating this bullshit. The zionist movement was grounded in 1898. That is, 40 years before the holocaust. The Zionist immigration waves, including the two most important, 1920-1924, 1933-1935, were before the holocaust. Well.. the holocaust surely didn't "harm" the zionist movement, but it had little effect. I argue that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and affairs will look today pretty much the same also if the holocaust did not happen at all. The rest of your post is below the lowest threshold of my intellect to even respond to. I don't know who Greenbaum was, I don't know the source and the context of the quotes, and I really don't care, because I hope that you agree that what one individual said at one certain point of time can not say anything about a nation and a national movement.... I will just quote one of your quotes: ....aHem.... The holocaust deniers are divided in two groups: Haters of Jews and/or Israel, and simply stupid people. In many cases, both is valid. I hope for you that you belong to the first and not the second group. If you are an intelluctual, or see yourself as one, please do not let your political opinions blur your reason. You can still be a fierceful opposer of Israel and say: Yes, the holocaust, the murder of millions of european jews did happen.
ziya, if you are saying that the palestinian-Israeli struggle for the same land is somehow similar to the holocaust... then I am sorry to tell you... something is wrong with your brain/education/both. If Israel wanted to bring a holocaust on the palestinians, believe me, there would have been very little palestinians left to tell the story....
Don't you know how to make relation between both ? From point of visctims /civil .. I guess you have not done what i have asked when looking at pictures .. Sorry for you.. How many victims would be enaugh to call it Holocaust ?