“Death to the enemies of Islam!” the counterdemonstrators cried, encircling the women

[polite]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

How can "no muslim in general supporting this behavior" when Muslim clerics actually make the abuse of woman part of law? Why don't you tell that to these women under Sharia law who can be legally raped, and the government refuses to help them? In fact tells them they are breaking the law to resist? Tell that to women who are held hostage in their own home, and cannot legally step out without their husbands permission. Why are you trying so hard to protect the abuse of women? It's not very hard to see it's wrong. You don't want to just say, "It's wrong." Instead you want to compare it to everything else, and pretend as if it's somehow normal or OK. Now you want to say it's somehow OK because in Christian countries, in the US, sometimes women get raped. The DIFFERENCE is that the law does not condone or tolerate the abuse of women here. The law here doesn't say oh you are a women therefore you can't have many rights, and oh you are a man therefore you are allowed to do this or that.

Its just to show that its not some time



Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with 60% still being left unreported.1

Males are the least likely to report a sexual assault, though they make up about 10% of all victims.1

1 out of every 6 American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.

In 2007, there were 248,300 victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.1 (These figures do not include victims 12 years old or younger.)

There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.

http://www.rainn.org

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by polite

Its just to show that its not some time

Um ok, so your contribution to this thread is to say that the crime of rape exists in America, and therefore that makes it somehow acceptable to make it legal to rape women under Sharia law in Afghanistan?

I'm still waiting for a Muslim, any Muslim to actually come into this thread and say, "What they are doing is wrong" without trying to justify it, qualify it, or make it seem normal or ok. Polite Teen, before you respond please read the petition, so you actually understand what is happening. With this law they are giving men the permission to force themselves sexually on women against their will, they will not allow a woman to get medical care, go to school, work etc. without their husbands permission, they are granting child custody only to men as an additional way to control the women.

Please don't respond by talking about the Christians, the eskimos in Alaska, what the French had for lunch. Just tell me yes or no, do you honestly believe this is right?

Originally Posted by polite

Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with 60% still being left unreported.1

Males are the least likely to report a sexual assault, though they make up about 10% of all victims.1

1 out of every 6 American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.

In 2007, there were 248,300 victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.1 (These figures do not include victims 12 years old or younger.)

There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.

http://www.rainn.org

Crime exists everywhere, at least the US is recognizing it as a crime. Many Muslim countries that participate in Islamic law will punish the woman for being raped. I'm sure rape is very under reported in these areas.

Local Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes.[1] Similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State.[2] Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.[3]You might think that such horrific barbarity cannot be the real Sharia law; that it is a misapplication of the law by ignorant clergy. Sadly, neither is true. source

[stOx]

Originally Posted by polite

Its just to show that its not some time



Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with 60% still being left unreported.1

Males are the least likely to report a sexual assault, though they make up about 10% of all victims.1

1 out of every 6 American women have been the victims of an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.

In 2007, there were 248,300 victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.1 (These figures do not include victims 12 years old or younger.)

There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.

http://www.rainn.org

All of which is illegal

[new]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

somehow acceptable to make it legal to rape women under Sharia law in Afghanistan?

can you please quote the part of Sharia which says it is legal to rape ?


Allah Almighty says in the Quran:

“The fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allaah, if you believe in Allaah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment” [al-Noor 24:2]

“And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses - lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient, ” [An-Noor 24:4]

[new]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

I'm still waiting for a Muslim, any Muslim to actually come into this thread and say, "What they are doing is wrong" without trying to justify it, qualify it, or make it seem normal or ok.

Actually what you are expecting is against the inherent spirit of Islam. the word 'Islam' means total submission. Muslims believe in Allah and His Orders without any if's and but's, without any questions, word from Allah in Quran is divine and is there for Muslims to follow in every age and time.

Some things might seem illogical to us and we might not be able to comprehend their usefulness but still believe in them wholeheartedly. The mere fact that the message is from Allah is enough, we don't need any more arguments or facts to strengthen our believe in them.

The festival of Eid-ul-adha which Muslims celebrate every year is based on the same message of obedience to Allah without Question

Eid-Ul-Adha is in commemoration of the command give by Allah to Prophet Abraham (may Allah be pleased with him) to sacrifice his first born son Ishmael to Him, I guess Christians and Jews also believe in this Command Given by Allah about sacrifice of Son Ishmael?


And as I said earlier if you are not satisfied that WHY Allah has given a certain command or order then it is best to read up/listen or ask some Islamic Scholar. They would be able to clarify any confusions that you may have and give logical explanations

[stOx]

new, you say it as if uncritical acceptance of dogmatic principles is something to be proud of.

I would suggest if your beliefs prevent you from condemning the rape of women you should have a long hard think about this god of yours and what your belief in him has done to your integrity and morality, because to an outsider it looks to have entirely eroded them and left you being accepting of the abhorrent and indifferent towards barbarism.

[new]

Originally Posted by stOx

new, you say it as if uncritical acceptance of dogmatic principles is something to be proud of.

I would suggest if your beliefs prevent you from condemning the rape of women you should have a long hard think about this god of yours and what your belief in him has done to your integrity and morality, because to an outsider it looks to have entirely eroded them and left you being accepting of the abhorrent and indifferent towards barbarism.

I think you know very well what Shria says about rape and I need not to mention that (now you might find it too barbaric!)

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1125407868541

[pingpong123]

Maybe im crazy but i always thought that a marriage is a partnership born out of love and mutual understanding, not out of slavery and cruelty. What if the wife wants sex and the man says no. Does that mean the wife can beat up her husband?

[stOx]

Originally Posted by new

I think you know very well what Shria says about rape and I need not to mention that (now you might find it too barbaric!)

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1125407868541

That is about women who aren't married to thier attacker.

[TheMightOfLove]

Here is some info on this subject from a Christian point of vew:

" Strong man is only the man of love, the man of truth.

...Remember: the first quality of the true/real man is love. Love is the Divine in man. Without Love man reverts to an animal. Without love he is subject only to sin and crime........

He who wishes to be worthy of the name "man" must be absolutely honest, absolutely good, absolutely intelligent and wise, absolutely noble...........


Only the man who can rejoice in the prosperity of others as he does in his own is honest and noble.

Man cannot be absolutely intelligent if he is not absolutely moral.
......................
You ask why you have come to earth.
To manifest Divine Love.
To manifest Divine Wisdom.
To manifest Divine Truth.
To manifest Divine Righteousness.
To manifest Divine Virtue.

Everything by which man loses his freedom s evil.
Everything by which man attains his freedom is good.
Implant Truth in your soul and you will acquire the freedom you seek.
....


http://beinsadeuno.blogspot.com/

[seoz]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

Seoz, you still don't get it. It is Islamic law - Sharia law, that is condoning the rape and abuse of these women. THAT's why people are relating this to Islam. Does that make sense?

Sharia court represents Islam, right? Here is a little girl punished to death by Sharia law because she was brutally raped.

There is a long list of women that have been, and continue to be, brutalized by Sharia law. These women that are protesting are very brave to do so, and I hope they will help bring about change. If you don't believe they should be treated that way, please support them by signing the petition below.

Read More: http://www.care2.com/causes/womens-r.../afghan-women/

Sign The Petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/to-...hia-family-law

Ok sorry i was away ..in the mean time i was digging regarding questions of Rebecca on sharia..so first of all Shari`ah is not a legal system that keeps itself away from realities of life. Rather, it is practical in the sense that its mechanism of justice operates in a quite flexible way that makes all its precepts and rulings applicable at all time.

So this law of producing four witnesses is applicable at that time as there was no other way to justify someone claims..and even at that time if a WOMEN DENIES THE CRIME AND SAYS THAT SHE HAS BEEN RAPED AND TAKE OATH REGARDING IT ... NO PUNISHMENT WILL BE GIVEN TO HER...NO MATTER SHE PRODUCE WITNESS OR NOT..ON JUST SINGLE OATH..ISLAM IS FREEING A WOMEN FROM THIS THING...
what else you want ???

marriage is a responsibility..its not just you like some one and you marry her/him..and after a year..you star liking someone else..and then it goes on and on..
Take it like you are doing a job,,and when your boss ask you to do something..you said no i don't like it and i wont do it..what your boss gonna do?? Fire you...why?
Its a natural human behavior...

And the other things are not instructed by Islam ..like marrying a younger girl..selling a women..These things created by individuals...

not some specific religion

And regarding StoX those things which you are talking bout are not legal in ISLAM too..

[pingpong123]

No punishment will be given to her? You seem to have forgotten one small detail???????????????? Where is the punishment that will be given to the male?

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by seoz

Ok sorry i was away ..in the mean time i was digging regarding questions of Rebecca on sharia..so first of all Shari`ah is not a legal system that keeps itself away from realities of life. Rather, it is practical in the sense that its mechanism of justice operates in a quite flexible way that makes all its precepts and rulings applicable at all time.

So this law of producing four witnesses is applicable at that time as there was no other way to justify someone claims..and even at that time if a WOMEN DENIES THE CRIME AND SAYS THAT SHE HAS BEEN RAPED AND TAKE OATH REGARDING IT ... NO PUNISHMENT WILL BE GIVEN TO HER...NO MATTER SHE PRODUCE WITNESS OR NOT..ON JUST SINGLE OATH..ISLAM IS FREEING A WOMEN FROM THIS THING... what else you want ???

If there aren't four men that witnessed the rape, and he says he didn't do it, he is free to go. However, if a woman reports a rape it can be treated as a "confession" of having sex outside of marriage. THEN, she can be convicted of Zina, like Aisha Duhulowa (brutally murdered under Sharia law). Seoz, did you sign the petition yet?

Originally Posted by stOx

I would suggest if your beliefs prevent you from condemning the rape of women you should have a long hard think about this god of yours and what your belief in him has done to your integrity and morality, because to an outsider it looks to have entirely eroded them and left you being accepting of the abhorrent and indifferent towards barbarism.

Absolutely.

[seoz]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

If there aren't four men that witnessed the rape, and he says he didn't do it, he is free to go. However, if a woman reports a rape it can be treated as a "confession" of having sex outside of marriage. THEN, she can be convicted of Zina, like Aisha Duhulowa (brutally murdered under Sharia law). Seoz, did you sign the petition yet?

Absolutely.

I havnt seen the petition yet .so how can i sign it
WHO SAYS THAT IF A WOMEN REPORTED RAPE IT WILL TAKE AS A CONFESSION..??? this is wrong

This is not sharia my dear ...

and this is what i posted i my last post that if a women report that she has been raped than she dont need 4 witness to prove it....she has to take oath...that she has been raped and that's all..if the other one take the same other than the both will let go and then GOD himself will do the justice..
And i hope that you believe in God's Justice

alrite I have read the petition...

frop god sake Rebecca
this is
Shia Family Law
not SHARIA

Islam allow a women to go anywhere she want alone WHEN NEEDED

and ISLAM DONT ALLOW TO HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN/WIFE BY FORCE

SO if this hamid karzai thing has implements this law,..that doesn't mean this is SHARIA...or ISLAM SAY SO..

So if you take your words back that ISLAM OR SHARIA ORDERED these things..I will sign it..
this is not sharia friend..its just a lwa to please a group of muslims..

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by seoz

WHO SAYS THAT IF A WOMEN REPORTED RAPE IT WILL TAKE AS A CONFESSION..??? this is wrong

Amnesty International might disagree with you...
"5.7 Women Under Sharia Law
Amnesty International states that "Sharia Law as practised in the northern states of Nigeria does not protect women from possible sexual assault and coercion, instead it is willing to punish victims of such assault" (25 Mar. 2002, 2). Under sharia law, young girls are segregated from boys in schools. Single-sex schools and taxis have been introduced in Zamfara State (BBC 15 Oct. 2001; Freedom House 2002, 45; HRW 2001, 72). Also "in Zamfara State, as of the fall of 2001, all high school girls whether Muslim or not, are required to wear the Muslim veil (hijab) as part of their uniform" (Freedom House 2002, 45).

Women who commit adultery and men who commit rape are sentenced to death by stoning (AFP 3 June 2002; HRW 2003; Freedom House 2002; Idowu-Fearon 26 Aug. 2002; Peters and Barends Sept. 2001, 19), "if the offender is married or has ever been married" (ibid.). According to Peters and Barends,

rape is regarded as a special case of zinâ [unlawful sexual intercourse] and is made punishable by the same punishments [see section 5.3 above], except that the Kano Penal Code, following the 1960 Penal Code, extends the imprisonment for the rapist to life. The Kano and Zamfara Penal Codes also oblige the perpetrator to pay compensation up to the amount of the proper bride price. The fact that rape is assimilated to zinâ puts women at a great disadvantage. If she reports being raped to the police, this can easily be construed as a confession to unlawful intercourse, which makes her liable to the hadd punishment for zinâ, unless she can prove that intercourse took place without her consent. Moreover, if her attacker does not confess, her accusations against him amount to defamation (qadhf, unfounded allegation of unlawful sexual intercourse), for which she can be punished by an additional eighty lashes (Sept. 2001, 19-20)." source

Originally Posted by seoz

This is not sharia my dear ...

Unfortunately, this is Sharia my dear...
In October 2008, a thirteen year old girl named Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow was murdered by supporters of this Islamic supremacist ideology — that murders thousands of women and girls every year. She was stoned to death as a crowd of 1,000 watched her punishment at the hands of fifty Islamic supremacist men. Her “crime” was that she was victim of gang rape. Her death by stoning was the result of Islamic supremacists’ support of Sharia law. As she begged for mercy, their reply was they were doing the will of Allah. The United States Senate responded to this act of terrorism with U.S. Senate Resolution 711. Senate Resolution 711 “condemned” this action and blamed it on a so-called “extremist group.” There was no recognition of the Islamic supremacist ideology behind these attacks. The U.S. Senate’s only real call for action in this Senate Resolution 711 was to ask Somalia to “strengthen the rule of law” in that nation. Since then, the new president of Somalia has adopted Sharia law for all of Somalia — the same Sharia law Islamic supremacists used to justify murdering this child. Sources here and here.

Originally Posted by seoz

and this is what i posted i my last post that if a women report that she has been raped than she dont need 4 witness to prove it....she has to take oath...that she has been raped and that's all..if the other one take the same other than the both will let go and then GOD himself will do the justice..

"Very few cases of rape happen with four witnesses present, let alone four "reliable and truthful" Muslim witnesses. For this reason, there is currently a virtual epidemic of gang rape in Pakistan. According to HCRP, a woman is gang-raped every eight hours in Pakistan. Women are fearful of reporting cases of rape, as the law demands that she produces four witnesses. Unable to do so, she automatically is considered to have proved herself guilty of zina under clause 8 (a) by means of making a full confession." source

In a different case here's a woman in Pakistan flogged because she refused to marry a Taliban commander. This grainy footage appears to show a 17-year-old girl being beaten by Islamic radicals in Pakistan’s northwestern region of Swat, where Sharia law was introduced after the government reached a truce with the Taleban in February. Video

Originally Posted by seoz

And i hope that you believe in God's Justice

It would be justice for all women to have basic human rights.

Originally Posted by seoz

alrite I have read the petition...

frop god sake Rebecca
this is
Shia Family Law
not SHARIA

Whoops. Oh well, regardless of whether it is Shia Family Law or Sharia Law, what I see is Islamic religious leaders creating and enforcing laws that abuse women.

Originally Posted by seoz

Islam allow a women to go anywhere she want alone WHEN NEEDED

That's another reason I dislike Sharia, not as bad as the flogging and stoning of course, but still.

Originally Posted by seoz

and ISLAM DONT ALLOW TO HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN/WIFE BY FORCE

SO if this hamid karzai thing has implements this law,..that doesn't mean this is SHARIA...or ISLAM SAY SO..

Apparently it does indicate Islam says so, at least according to the Islamic religious leaders that create Shia Family Law.

Originally Posted by seoz

So if you take your words back that ISLAM OR SHARIA ORDERED these things..I will sign it..

No, I'm sorry I can't. But would you please sign it anyway?

[seoz]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


again and again...
they are all INDIVIDUALS APPROACHES..

THIS IS NOT SHARIA,,
no matter if taliban says so
no matter hamid karzai says so
no matter any religious leader says so
no matter they have made the law in there country

THIS IS NOT SHARIA

and that video has been proved fake ...see the backgrund, dubbing, faces, language..

and I am more stubborn than you

SO i wont sign it unless you get it very clear that this is not SHARIA or ISLAM
its just individual approaches

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by seoz

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


again and again...
they are all INDIVIDUALS APPROACHES..

THIS IS NOT SHARIA,,
no matter if taliban says so
no matter hamid karzai says so
no matter any religious leader says so
no matter they have made the law in there country

THIS IS NOT SHARIA

and that video has been proved fake ...see the backgrund, dubbing, faces, language..

and I am more stubborn than you

SO i wont sign it unless you get it very clear that this is not SHARIA or ISLAM
its just individual approaches

IT IS SHARIA. Why don't we go about this a different way. Give me one example of any country in the world that is currently under Sharia Law, where women haven't been oppressed by it. OK?

[seoz]

Originally Posted by Rebecca

IT IS SHARIA. Why don't we go about this a different way. Give me one example of any country in the world that is currently under Sharia Law, where women haven't been oppressed by it. OK?

IRAN.....may be

[browntwn]

Originally Posted by seoz

THIS IS NOT SHARIA,,
no matter if taliban says so
no matter hamid karzai says so
no matter any religious leader says so
no matter they have made the law in there country

They say yes, you say no. Why should we take your word for it over theirs? The problem is that every Muslim speaks for themselves. These are not just men acting out, these are men acting out in the name if Islam. Maybe they are correct and you are wrong?

It comes down to the fact that one Muslim says it is Sharia and another says it is not. This is a fight between Muslims.

One thing is clear and that is that these oppressive laws are justified by Islam and the Koran by those that support them.

[Rebecca]

Originally Posted by seoz

IRAN.....may be

Seoz, in my opinion Sharia Law creates injustice and inequality for the women in Iran as well.

Women in Iran face far-reaching discrimination under the law. They are denied equal rights in marriage, divorce, child custody and inheritance. Evidence given by a woman in court is considered only worth half that given by a man. A girl under the age of 13 can be forced to marry a much older man if her father permits it. Amnesty International

Here is an interesting and recent article on what it's like being a woman in Iran. I would have preferred to cut and paste a piece of it here, but you really have to read it in it's entirety to get it. Harassment and Abuse in Iran: Women Viewed as Sex Objects in Shari’a and Customary Law

Here's a story about 16 year old girl who was killed under Sharia Law in Iran for having sex without being married (this is kind of old, it happened back in 2004). It's sad though because what she really needed was some help, but she didn't get any.

A pharmacist, whose shop is not far away from the Railway Square, where Atefeh was hanged, recalls her final, painful hour. “When agents of the State Security Forces brought her to the gallows, I felt cold sweat running down my back. She looked so young and innocent, standing there in the middle of all these bearded men in military fatigues. Judge Reza’i must have felt a personal grudge against her. He put the rope around her neck and left her dangling on the gallows for 45 minutes. I looked around and everyone in the crowd was sobbing and damning the mullahs for doing this to our young people.”

Atefeh had no access to a lawyer at any stage and her death sentence was upheld by a Supreme Court that is dominated by fundamentalist mullahs. Haji Rezaii, the religious judge, was reportedly so incensed with Atefeh’s “sharp tongue” during the trial that he travelled to Tehran to convince the mullahs of the Supreme Court to uphold the death sentence.

The tragically short life of Atefeh Rajabi its brutal end are a reminder of the plight of millions of girls in a country where, according to state-owned newspapers, 75 percent of the population live below the poverty line, 66 percent of women are victims of some form of domestic violence, and over 70 percent of women suffer from varying degrees of depression. Iran remains, in the words of UN Human Rights Rapporteur Maurice Copithorne, “a prison for women.” source