ePN: eBay, the Streets Don't LIE!

[fr0gman]

I come from a long line of Irish Cops. My grandfather was a cop in Chicago, my uncles were cops, my dad, my brothers. A solid 80% of the men in my family are police officers. If there is one thing that I have learned over the years it is the same thing that any policeman will agree:

The streets don't lie.

If you ask 10 random people on the street who is selling crack and they all point to the green house on the corner you can bet your bonnet that crack is being sold there. If you ask 10 random people on the street who robbed the bank and they all say Joe, you can bet your bonnet that Joe is sitting on a pile of cash. The streets don't lie.

Now, if you ask 10 people if ePN has problems and they say YES you can be assured that there is a HUGE PROBLEM.

I also have a HUGE PROBLEM understanding why ePN and eBay at large not only refuses to engage affiliates in a way that will benefit everyone but they also feel that employing secret metrics, cloak and dagger methods and censorship and spin on forums will in some way help things. Sweeping problems under the rug and glossing over problems WILL NOT HELP.

I challenge ePN to develop a direct feedback system wherein affiliates can communicate with decision makers in a way that will benefit everyone. Hold actual town hall type meeting where actual problems get addresses FROM BOTH SIDES of the partnership. Oh, and stop deleting forum posts. It just undermines any integrity you might have left and makes it look like you have more to hide than we already know.

ePN can and SHOULD be much more than it is today. Continuing on the current path will spell disaster: it is that plain and simple. SOMETHING needs to be done and done FAST.

[reapr]

Originally Posted by fr0gman

I come from a long line of Irish Cops. My grandfather was a cop in Chicago, my uncles were cops, my dad, my brothers. A solid 80% of the men in my family are police officers. If there is one thing that I have learned over the years it is the same thing that any policeman will agree:

The streets don't lie.

If you ask 10 random people on the street who is selling crack and they all point to the green house on the corner you can bet your bonnet that crack is being sold there. If you ask 10 random people on the street who robbed the bank and they all say Joe, you can bet your bonnet that Joe is sitting on a pile of cash. The streets don't lie.

Now, if you ask 10 people if ePN has problems and they say YES you can be assured that there is a HUGE PROBLEM.

I also have a HUGE PROBLEM understanding why ePN and eBay at large not only refuses to engage affiliates in a way that will benefit everyone but they also feel that employing secret metrics, cloak and dagger methods and censorship and spin on forums will in some way help things. Sweeping problems under the rug and glossing over problems WILL NOT HELP.

I challenge ePN to develop a direct feedback system wherein affiliates can communicate with decision makers in a way that will benefit everyone. Hold actual town hall type meeting where actual problems get addresses FROM BOTH SIDES of the partnership. Oh, and stop deleting forum posts. It just undermines any integrity you might have left and makes it look like you have more to hide than we already know.

ePN can and SHOULD be much more than it is today. Continuing on the current path will spell disaster: it is that plain and simple. SOMETHING needs to be done and done FAST.

Is this in relation to the tracking issue ... ?

[fr0gman]

Originally Posted by reapr

Is this in relation to the tracking issue ... ?

It is related to the over all tracking, trust, transparency and client support issues. I wist that the problem with ePN could be reduced to just the tracking problems.

ePN needs to step up to the plate and admit that putting someone in charge of their affiliate program that has no affiliate marketing experience was a major mistake.

I suggest that you Google "epn problems". Also check out forms like www.epnforums.com and www.powersellersunite.com if you you want a clear view of what the streets think of this fiasco.

[dwallphx]

Since eBay took their affiliate program in-house back in April 08', there have been many privately-owned auction sites popping-up on the Net which cover specialty niches that used to be exclusive to eBay. I have seen them for used clothes, used car parts, vintage dolls, civil war antiques and others. Most of these sites are owned by ex-ePN affiliates who got disgusted with ePN but didn't have anywhere else to send the traffic they had already cultivated for their niche. A closer look at these sites shows that many of the sellers are converts from eBay too. Probably lured away with the promise of lower fees and the chance to sell their items on a site that specializes in what they offer.

ePN's treatment of it's affiliates is causing many of them to become competitors and they are taking eBay sellers with them. Individually, no big deal; Collectively, they may end up taking a big chunk of eBay's business from them by this time next year. But that's not to say that eBay will sit back and take it. The auction software manufacturer warns it's customers if you get caught collecting auction fees using PayPal, they will cancel your PayPal account, so most of them are using Google Checkout services and advising thier sellers to do the same.

As my dear old grandma would have said, "What do you expect when you bite the hand that feeds you."

[geomark]

"...if you get caught collecting auction fees using PayPal, they will cancel your PayPal account"

Really? WTF, they so suck. How about some links to these new auction sites. I'm ready to start exploring alternatives to EPN.

[fr0gman]

Now now now, boys.

ePn is a good program and eBay is a good source. The fact that they are run by complete idiots is where the fault begins.

[coachtraffic]

The simple fact they can't approve new affiliates for weeks or even months shows there is a major problem within EPN. Then you can add the delayed reporting, loss of tracking, and next-to-no customer support and you have a very bad picture.

If any other affiliate program was run like this it would be out of business within months.

[fr0gman]

And the problem is that we based our investment on the reputation of the name EBAY. After spending thousands on development and promotion we are left knowing that ePN is a weak program backed by a weaker management team and we don't know if our methods are going to keep us off the chopping block the next time they decide to use their inaccurate tracking number and secret (flawed) metrics to effect another mass termination.

[fr0gman]

I have just received and replied to an email from the eBay President, John Donahoe's office. I made many of my concerns about Steve hartman and the ePN program very clear. We shall see how this one plays out.

Stay tuned...

[cylai]

Well, no doubt there are tons of problems with EPN, but you can't deny that it converts.

As one poster mentioned, many people buy from eBay because they trust the brand.

It's the reason why I am still promoting it, while separating my eggs.

[internetmarketingiq]

Bonnet? Ebay is the 10,000 lb Gorilla. They will do whatever they want to do. And if you don't think they are monitoring the effects of their actions you are mistaken.

But like any huge organization they don't look at the pieces as much as the collective.

[fr0gman]

Originally Posted by cylai

Well, no doubt there are tons of problems with EPN, but you can't deny that it converts.

I agree, and many of the affiliates that were with CommissionJunction say that ePN converts as low as 80% less that the same sites did with CJ.

If it is the same content, the same traffic and all that changed are the tracking codes one is left thinking that the thing is broken.

Until eBay gets a handle on their tracking errors and finds someone with more affiliate marketing experience than Steve Hartman they will have ZERO trust in the community.

[Andre09]

I actually rather dislike eBay solely because of the fact that they own PayPal, but I think you also have to consider the amount of EPN cookie stuffers out there destroying eBay. Like with all affiliate programs, when they try to get rid of the corrupt affiliates the honest affiliates get affected too.

Your initial theory about 10 people is flawed, but I agree with the end result of ebay/paypal being terrible companies.

[fr0gman]

I am not saying that ePN does not have legitimate problems because they do. The cookie stuffing (from members of this forum) and the roundtripping by places like Auctiva certainly hurt the program. These are both great reasons NOT to hire someone to be the program director that has no experience in affiliate marketing.

[fr0gman]

Originally Posted by MelogKnaj

Your initial theory about 10 people is flawed, but I agree with the end result of ebay/paypal being terrible companies.

I am not going to debate the number of people required to come up with a good "lead". Rest assured that there are more than 10 people saying that epn/eBay has serious problems that left unchecked will cause more problems for the program.

[cylai]

If they don't do the right thing, i think it's a matter of time affiliates leave EPN altogether.

[fr0gman]

People are already leaving and I am not sure that ePN knows what "the right thing" is.

What they need to do is start listening to those that know what an affiliate program is supposed to be and stop trying to reinvent the wheel with disruptive innovation.

[dwallphx]

Originally Posted by geomark

"...if you get caught collecting auction fees using PayPal, they will cancel your PayPal account"

Really? WTF, they so suck. How about some links to these new auction sites. I'm ready to start exploring alternatives to EPN.

Sorry it took so long. Some of these people are still ePN members, so I didn't want to post their link here without asking them first. Here is an example of one who is owned by a ePN member who was "expired" back in August, so she doesn't care.

http://www.theteddypatch.com

[dwallphx]

Originally Posted by fr0gman

What they need to do is start listening to those that know what an affiliate program is supposed to be and stop trying to reinvent the wheel with disruptive innovation.

Many experts in thier field are praised for innovating new ways of doing things. If you are NOT an expert in the field, it just makes you an idiot in the eyes of those who are.