Obama and the Muslim mystery

I certainly don't believe some of those outlandish conspiracies although they are fun to think about.

In today's political world, it's hard to tell fact from fiction.
A good lie can be made off as a fact by a skilled deceiver. So having a few facts doesn't count for anything.

All i have are opinions. If i had facts, i'd be a statistician

 

Hear ya. Why rely on facts when they only get in the way.

Now, to the reality. I don't find groundless conspiracy theories "fun," when they are used to smear the life and character of good people. Whether from the extreme right, say, calling a standing United States President a traitorous, Stalinist "Commie" based on a photograph, or from the polymorphic bunch that promulgates "Illuminati" horseshit at every political turn, I don't find them as useful as facts.

Both "Obama is a closet Muslim" and "He isn't patriotic because he didn't put his hand over his heart for the National Anthem" have been decisively debunked, now, several times, with facts.

You say you have no facts, and have only an opinion, in concluding the allegations of this thread are true; further, you admit you aren't really interested in facts.

Based on this, I'd say your username is an apt choice of word.

 

You come to lots of interesting conclusions there.

Obama might not be as bad as some allegations against him suggest.

But there's more to the man than he lets on and surely he won't deliver all his promises to the extent he has promised them, that i'm reasonably sure.

 

"Not as bad" isn't the proper framework. THERE'S NOTHING. Innuendo. E-Mail hoaxes. Slander. That's all.

Now - there's more to any of us than we let on, and only time will tell whether and how much he can deliver. So far, one key benchmark I value as a means to deliver - the ability to draw a diverse coalition together for a common good - is seen in the man's candidacy, in surfeit. I'm willing to give him the shot.

That's a far cry from crucifying a longtime, publically-transparent Chicago activist, a standing United States Senator, and currently leading candidate for the United States Presidency as an Al Qaeda-esque plant, without any facts to support the conspiracy theory. Stuff like this, for instance:

Should raise a red flag. Bogart linked to:

Brzezinski Backs Obama

The title of the article is what the hyperlink says it is - "Brzezinski Backs Obama." In other words, the article is entirely about Brzezinski's endorsement of Obama. There is nothing whatsoever suggesting that Brzezinski is the "main adviser and foreign policy adviser," much less "advisor" to Obama. all I have seen are further sites - with lots of "!!!!!!!" and words like "NWO" and the like - saying Brzezinski is what Bogart says he is, and they leap to this theory based on Brzezinski's endorsement. In fact, from all I can know, David Axelrod is Obama's "main adviser." In terms of foreign policy, here is what I have:

Source: http://www.nysun.com/article/71651

(Though I have seen this information many other places as well. Of course, conspiracy enthusiasts will simply call it all "smoke and mirrors," while they have the real goods. I can't argue with that - kind of like saying I have the voice of god, and you don't).

 

Obama belongs to the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Its minister and Obama's spiritual adviser is Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr.

There are hundreds of churches on the South Side of Chicago that Obama could have chosen from. He selected one that was headed by Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Junior.

Obama background is muslim. Both his father and stepfather are muslims and Obama was raised by a muslim family. Obama spent most of his childhood in a muslim country. Perhaps Obama's background played a part in his choice of the Trinity United Church of Christ.

It is well documented that Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Junior is anti-Israel.

"Wright is a long-time friend of the virulently anti-Semitic head of the Nation of Islam - fellow Chicagoan Louis Farrakhan. The two traveled together to Libya some years ago to pay homage to Muammar Gaddafi. Last year Wright presented Farrakhan with a "Lifetime Achievement" award."

"In an investigative report on Obama published last week by the American Thinker Web site, Ed Lasky documented multiple examples of Wright's anti-Jewish and anti-white animus. Wright has called for divestment from Israel and refers to Israel as a "racist" state. Theologically, he believes that the true "Chosen People" are the blacks. Indeed, he is a black supremacist. He believes that black values are superior to middle class American values and that blacks should isolate themselves from the wider American society."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1200572509823&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Obama came out of nowhere. But the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. have been on the scene for a while.

Obama has received generous support from billionaire George Soros. Need I say more.

 

You have said this since page 1, Bogart. Your contentions regarding Obama's "muslim background" have been roundly debunked since then, with facts. You have offered zero countervailing proof, and only continued opinion. As I said, repeating a lie doesn't make it truth. Offer proof, or fool no one except the gullible.

The church thing. I can only offer that for a time, while in the Navy, I attended a "liberation church." I came with an open heart and was accepted into one of the most devoted communities, who embraced me as "Brother Paul" in one of the most transforming experiences I ever had in my young life. It is socially activist in outlook, and there is no denying this ruffles many, many feathers.

Here is what Urban Legend has to say on the matter:

Furthermore, Obama isn't the Church. What we have, again, are his views, and his actions. Further, since the man is half-white, I'd be hard pressed to believe he is in some kind of inner racist civil war.

Now, beyond all this, I also know that you continue to make broad misstatements that have no basis in fact. What happened, for instance, to Brzezinski as

Kind of slipped away? When is the next one coming?

Bogart, I've enjoyed exchanges with you in the past. I feel this one has gone to the gutter. Your next President will likely, at the current rate, anyway, be named Barack Hussein Obama. I'd suggest you deal with it.

 

Fact:
#1) Obama was raised by a muslim family in a muslim country
#2) Both Obama's father and Stepfather are muslims

Obama has a muslim background. What background do you think he has?

The Trinity United Church of Christ has known anti-jewish ties.

What's going on in Obama's mind is important not the color of his skin.

'On August 24, Mr. Brzezinski, a one-time national security adviser to President Carter, announced in an interview on Bloomberg's satellite news channel that he was endorsing Mr. Obama, and he has been an adviser to the campaign since.

A spokesman for the senator's presidential campaign, Tommy Vietor, said the campaign did not know Mr. Brzezinski was leading the delegation [to Syria]. "The first we heard of this trip was from you," he said. He added: "Brzezinski is not a day-to-day adviser for the campaign, he is someone whose guidance Senator Obama seeks on Iraq."'

http://www.nysun.com/article/71123

In any case look beyond Brzezinski to Obama's other foreign policy advisor Robert Malley who has expressed sympathy to Hamas and Hezbollah and offered accounts of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations that "don't jibe with the facts,"

The voters will choose the next President and my opinion one way or the other will not make a difference.

Yeah. Obama is not what he seems.

 

you assume eh? well you know what they say about people who make assumptions. or maybe you don't.

into some kind of heaven? no. just into something closer to what it should be. we're on the wrong track and most Americans agree with that. "change" is a great thing to run on politically at this juncture, this only shows his political acumen.

Mia and bogart aren't looking deeper into anything. that's like saying the swift boat thing was about "looking deeper" into John Kerry's time in Vietnam. this is fear mongering plain and simple. nothing more. there's absolutely nothing enlightening being brought in by these folks. nothing that even resembles fact.

 

Bogart, I won't repeat what has already been covered on this thread regarding his faith. You know this has been covered already - pages 1 through whatever - and it is just silly at this point. You've been disproven, as has this ridiculous hoax and smear attempt.

Regarding his, church, and a new charge, Obama's "anti-semitism." As I said, Obama isn't his church; and absolutely right, Obama's color doesn't matter, his thoughts do. And here they are:

What's next?

Oh, right, Brzezinski.

The article mentions "Brzezinski indicates he has been advising Obama;" Below, in another Sun article, the article indicates that Obama's "wider circle" includes Brzezinski. Bit of a far cry from the strident misstatement:

Wouldn't you say?

Secondly, Obama believes in first talking with one's enemy. I applaud such a view, unequivocally. I flatly disagree with the current administrations policy of "no talk" in this regard. War is a helluva cudgel to wage, when the more difficult road - sitting at the same table with one's enemy - is still open.

Here's Obama's view. I agree with it:

Further regarding Obama's "anti-Semitism" and his brain trust, please refer to post 164, in the event you missed it. You will note that Daniel Shapiro is his senior adviser on middle eastern affairs.

You neglected to include what else the Sun has had to say on the subject:

http://www.nysun.com/article/71580?page_no=2

You can try to paint a picture all you want, Bogart, but distortions do you no good. I'd suggest you consider what I've said all along - his public life, his planned policies and his statements. Continuing the attempt to paint an al-Qaeda mole with plans to initiate the violent overthrow of the government is silly. Fortunately, thousands of people, and thousands of delegates, know to consider facts and merits.

 

Now there's a fact I can't take anymore of this repeated empty B.S.

A big thanks to Zibblu and northpointaiki for dealing with these guys and responding with the truth.

 

You probably didn't hear the news that Hezbollah terror chief Imad Mughniyah killed in Damascus blast acouple of weeks ago.

Damascus is a cesspool of terrorism

It's really sickening to see Brzezinski and Pelosi go to Damascus to kiss Assad's butt.

 

Syria is a power broker in the Middle East. Ignoring that, like falsehoods here, doesn't change the reality. It's the nasty thing about statesmanship - it isn't fun, and it's messy. It requires being willing to talk to slimeballs. I was academically steeped on Hans Morganthau and other realist thinkers (Kenneth Waltz, among others), so this is probably the subject for another thread.

To this thread: I disagree with its thrust, namely: an intimation that Barack Obama is a militant Islamic mole bent on destroying the United States. You've thrown up quite a bit of unsupported opinions, all refuted with observable and testable facts. I'd once again suggest you move on to a substantive debate.

 

North

Any comments on this?

Michelle Obama Was Never Proud of Her Country Before?
http://www.fortliberty.org/blog/

 

And this too

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1560427320080221

 

I'm thinking the same thing. Obama is a George Soros pipe dream

 

I think it's pretty clear, Bogart - she is a traitorous cohort, which would make sense since she's married to an Al-Qaeda plant for the presidency.

Or, back in the world of reality, it was a gaffe in her choice of words, leapt upon, of course, by those who have sought a fulfillment of the conspiracy theory at every wisp of a word, and a gaffe for which she's answered completely.

She's been called "ignorant" too, on this very thread. Princeton educated, Harvard trained lawyer, Vice President for Community and External Affairs, University of Chicago Hospitals. Yep, low-life and a traitor, like her husband.

Ah well, I'm sure hers is a degree in difference and kind from the dozens uttered in all past campaigns, by all candidates, their wives and associates. Or the REAL IMPORTANCE of whether John McCain slept with the lobbyist. Or any other issues that are...that are...I mean it, really....really, really important.

Or, to acknowledge there is no conspiracy, and it might - might - be time to move on to the substance of the candidacies, on their merits, would require something other than a religious zeal to smear.

Lightless, if you'd like a response, uh, yep, Hillary Clinton continues to want to make Obama look like a dreamer, without substance.

Because her head is being handed to her on a plate. The Clintons have never shied from clawing at the gutter to win - one big reason I'm not a fan. Did you have something substantive to say, or just wanting to add a bit more wind to the sails of this thread?

Now, let's see....Al-Qaeda plant who will institute a violent overthrow of the United States government the moment he swears in on the big Green Book; check; unpatriotic slimeball because he didn't place his hand over the left quadrant of his chest during the playing of the National Anthem (and neither does the President, apparently) and he doesn't wear one of those pin thingies that really lets you know he is an American, and this poster isn't, because he doesn't sport a pin thingy either; check; has sex nightly with Brzezinski; check; is a rabid anti-semite; check. Is a rabid black nationalist; check. Has a wife who is an unpatriotic slimeball and it's only now becoming discovered after a lifetime of excellence; check. Oh, that platform thingy. Irrelevant. What's next, and really, really juicy?

Gents, you raise numerous spurious accusations that have been utterly refuted, in many instances, many times. You then ignore these, and move on to another unfounded accusation. You ever consider how ridiculous this comes off?

 

Certain opinions on obama seem to be common.
All those opinions can only be silenced if obama proves he's not a mere dreamer and promise-maker and will deliver all that he has promised.

Time will tell.
I'll only be happy if obama proves doubter's wrong and leads america to a golden age.
We all could use heroes and visionaries. But we don't need another one who promises much, but fails to deliver.

 

I would say, certain opinions among those who need a loss to prove a conspiracy, or those who can't personally stomach the idea are common. Those who look at his record of achievements, and his personal ability to draw a coalition of disparate folks for workable, common solutions, do not agree. And it is all Ms. Clinton can rest on now, to repeat her "ready on day 1" mantra ad nauseum.

Absolutely agree. I'm skeptical that anything can be substantively done, to be honest, as I have lived long enough to see swings at it from across the political spectrum. But of all the options, this candidate has my nod, and my hopes for a better tomorrow. Allow me to repeat what I've said already:

 

Socialism is not the path to a golden age.

 

Well, hell, guess that's it for Brian Moore - Socialist and Presidential Candidate.

Course, from a guy that said this:

About an organization that said this:

(John Birch Society Website)

About Dwight Eisenhower, United States President and Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Forces, WWII, I'm not surprised you've confused the two.

By your boogie-man lens of history, Otto Von Bismarck, Prussian Aristocrat, Authoritarian Leader of the Unified Germany of 1871, lifelong enemy of socialism, and forger of the coalition of "Iron and Rye" against a nascent socialist movement, was a bleedin,' stinkin' pinko because he introduced - close your eyes - SOCIAL SECURITY!

Anyway, after last night, appears to me Obama's taking it, folks. Predicting the endgame for Ms. Clinton is upon us.