the truth about Page Rank

Discussion in 'Google' started by thegypsy, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. #1
    Ok, the gloves are off.

    To start with I have been reading, ad-nausea, on a variety of SEO forums, people's excitement and anger or a simple little Page Rank update. My goodness, much ado about nothing is it not?
    To start it was merely a TOOL BAR update. The actual PR is calculated ‘on-the-fly’. So last week was merely a TB update of existing information affecting SERPs. There is no REAL update for the engine/algo as far as that goes.

    To that end, I want to know this; what is the VALUE of page rank and PR updates?


    On my quest (other forums) to date I can find only the following ‘legitimate’ valuations for PR;

    a. If you are selling a website
    b. You are selling a domain
    c. You are selling text links
    d. Researching link building opportunities (finding places for placing text links)

    While I have heard a TON of conjecture, for the most part this is an interesting journey to see what people ‘believe’ PR to be worth. One went so far as to imply consumers use it as a tool for gauging trust ability of a site, (which is BUNK). It is truly amazing, some of the things I have heard…

    Let’s have it… anyone see a purpose for PR (toolbar specifically)?
     
    thegypsy, Jul 19, 2006 IP
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  2. mdvaldosta

    mdvaldosta Peon

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    #2
    PR is certainly used to determine how deep to crawl and index a site, as for the toolbar... well it really serves no purpose other than to give webmasters something to talk about.

    I don't see it offering any real value to anyone other than being a shortcut to finding link popularity. It doesn't affect serps, it's only a reflection of the incoming links (which you can find using other tools much more acurately), and it causes mass confusion (maybe what Google wants, especially given the latest updates).

    Don't get me wrong, I look foward to the PR toolbar exports just like everyone else... but it's more for self pride / bragging rights than anything else. Really important for directories, or other link sales but really that's it.
     
    mdvaldosta, Jul 19, 2006 IP
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  3. geo88

    geo88 Peon

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    #3
    but don't IBLs with good anchor text influence SERPS ? :confused:
     
    geo88, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  4. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #4
    Thanks for that voice of reason. It is UNBELIEVEABLE the variety of responses I am getting on this. It started small, but my frustration with folks perception set me on this path of truth.

    I'd simply love to put the whole TB/PR thing to rest once and for all and get on with more important discussions. This has taken up waaaaayyy too much forum real estate lately.

    I await further thoughts....
     
    thegypsy, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  5. thilak

    thilak Active Member

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    #5
    Yeah mdvaldosta, your right
     
    thilak, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  6. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #6
    IBLs? Incomming Backlinks? Being the post Big Dady world, I prefer OWBL (one way back links) since that's all that has value these days.

    Anyways, this thread is about the value of PR (page rank), I don't want it to dilute into a different discussion. Please?
    I feel that the issue of PR updates (toolbar) should be put in it's grave once and for all.
     
    thegypsy, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  7. Ohene

    Ohene Guest

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    #7
    We have a site that gained a PR 6 in one month. I has only one BL (from our site) PR means nothing.. unless you're going to sell a site to some rookie.
     
    Ohene, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  8. nachoninja

    nachoninja Peon

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    #8
    PR is old, it was useful, back in the day.

    Your reasons listed above outline its use now.

    More concentration on relevant links is what people should be spending time on, regardless of PR.

    my 2 cents
     
    nachoninja, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  9. Monty

    Monty Peon

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    #9
    I totally agree with this.

    Here is a thread talking about a recent study on which factors are used to determine ranking in SERPS.
    http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=109874

    Anchor of Inbound Links seems to weight a great deal, far more than quantity of BL
     
    Monty, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  10. CCD

    CCD Peon

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    #10
    It's silly to talk about PR all the time, like you said, but equally silly to dismiss it as meaningless, like some people do.

    A quick check of the top 10 results for any meaningful search in Google shows it is a significant factor in determining where you rank, but not the only factor, as some sites prove.

    PR is useful to know, but is only 1 piece of the jigsaw.
     
    CCD, Jul 19, 2006 IP
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  11. nachoninja

    nachoninja Peon

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    #11
    I'll make another comment, I'll honestly scream if I hear another webmaster tell me that they won't exchange niche specific relevant links because my PR isn't at a certain level.

    Its the most rediculous thing ever, relevant links are GOLD people!
     
    nachoninja, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  12. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #12
    Ok, then are we safe in the following statement?

    Google’s Page Rank system has it’s values as far as being a factor in the algorithms decision making but should in no way be considered a focal point of a meaningful SEO/SEM campaign. It is best used by webmasters in understanding the relevance value of a website and for identifying potential ranking bottle necks and red flags a site may possess. It’s mere existence denotes a value is inherent within SEO activities, but without a true measurable value, it is not a viable target for marketing investments

    How’s that? Are we getting somewhere here?
     
    thegypsy, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  13. LTEli

    LTEli Guest

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    #13
    I really like that and i think its 100% true... I wanna use that in my SEO websites blog :p
     
    LTEli, Jul 19, 2006 IP
  14. LaCabra

    LaCabra Goats R Us

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    #14
    The basic principals of which PR was originally introduced was acceptable BUT has shown an inability to scale and accurately reflect what it was intended to do. PR is how Google was supposed to measure the importance of a page but it is flawed algorythmically and easily manipulated. Point in case, MFA sites rate higher in PR than legitimate sites and sites put up by governing institutions and organizations (the experts) for particular topics and industries. PR has absolutely NO VALUE.
     
    LaCabra, Jul 20, 2006 IP
  15. thegypsy

    thegypsy Peon

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    #15
    ok, you are correct in the statement that it is useless, you are incorrect in assuming that it EVER played a roll in weighting and authority declaration. It has not, and was never intended to, be such a tool.

    Here's a clip from an article I am finishing up on the whole PR thing;

    'As stated in an interview, Google engineer, Daniel Dulitz. When asked about data accuracy in the toolbar meter. He told Mike that there are two elements: accuracy and precision,
    "We have a lot more precision available to us than we represent in a 10-step scale."

    When asked about the obsession to ‘the little green bar’ by the SEO community and webmasters, Dulitz said,

    “For search engine marketing, search engine optimization purposes, yeah, I'd say that there's too much emphasis placed on what that PR number actually is.... So, if people are trying to look at what we're doing and their idea is based on that single thing from 1 to 10, then... well, they're not going to be effective in figuring out what we're doing at all.”

    So, much ado about nothing, huh?
     
    thegypsy, Jul 20, 2006 IP
  16. evolving

    evolving Peon

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    #16
    pr is a way to know how your site imp is evolving
     
    evolving, Jul 20, 2006 IP
  17. LaCabra

    LaCabra Goats R Us

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    #17
    you don't need PR for that .. check your stats and revenues!
     
    LaCabra, Jul 20, 2006 IP
  18. cldnails

    cldnails Well-Known Member

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    #18
    Considering the forums that you are researching on I would think that what you mentioned as value of PR to be of very high importance.

    After all, aren't we all here to build backlinks and the best way, to date, is to base it off of PR. In addition, earning revenue off of link sales is a very popular method, what else are you going to base it off of...other than traffic.

    I see the big deal about PR, I just wish there was an alternative.
     
    cldnails, Jul 20, 2006 IP
  19. Double_Spyder

    Double_Spyder Guest

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    #19
    I agree with this. If nothing else, the higher the PR the higher you place in the Google Directory... If you are ranked #1 in the right category it can mean lots of quality traffic.
     
    Double_Spyder, Jul 20, 2006 IP
  20. iowadawg

    iowadawg Prominent Member

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    #20
    Too many webmasters will not trade links, or link to, any site with a low or no pr.
    Despite the site having hundreds, thousands even, of unique visitors, making a bunch of money, etc.

    Same with directories, too many say that with low or no pr, why buy a featured ad or sponsor link?

    Odd thing is, for every webmaster who fits in the above categories, there are a dozen who will jump in and buy links.
     
    iowadawg, Jul 20, 2006 IP