The Presidential Debate Thread- McCain, Obama,who won?, who rambles off subject more?

I replied because I took it as a real reply back, then you said it was a joke. Didn't sound like that at all tbh.


The debates was one of Obama's "test", "Can he hold his own?" "Will he do well?" "Will he lose his control and calmness?" and etc. And the republicans at my work in August, "Cant wait for the debates we will see Obama's inexperience?", "Obama wont have his teleprompter now" and etc.

The debates have gained Obama grounds with independents which is why we have them. We all know the base will vote for their party.

 

LOL - classic. "Obama was wearing a chartreuse tie and penny loafers with white patent leather tops and double-breasted tweed, and was blowing smoke rings from an elitist Djarum...Oh - I didn't see it." The usual, great comedy, Biz, thanks.

My quick thought: Agree with George's assessment. I do think McCain had his best debate, however. His initial energy was strong and he presented his initial points well, while Obama was flat, during this early portion.

That said, McCain flagged quickly, and, characteristically, when he flags, he merely turns surly as hell; it doesn't go over at all well, particularly when Obama doesn't rise to the bait.

McCain successfully launched his "I'm not Bush" moment, something he's obviously been waiting for an opportunity to launch, though its effect was significantly dulled by Obama's successful retort, linking McCain to the Bush policies. Yes, Obama did his own zinger, responding to McCain's "fine" on "Joe the Plumber's" (what the hell was this - anyone else find this just bizarro?) business with "zero."

Completely agree with George on the Ayres thing - McCain's attempt to once again pin Ayres to Obama was a certifiable gift to Obama, in my opinion - giving Obama the platform to utterly dispel the smear of an Ayres "connection" while allowing Obama the chance to declare who he has behind him. Home run.

Wonder if anyone else feels this - seemed to me that McCain was handed a bit of a consistent gift, with Schieffer giving (by my count) all but one or two "last point" comments to McCain, and as it is last points that resonate in public memory, this should have been a help to McCain - anyone else agree?

I say "should" have helped him, but he blew many opportunities here, too. I do think there will be some significant backlash over his snide dismissal of a very basic statement by Obama - to Obama's saying he is opposed to late-term abortions ("partial birth or otherwise," as Obama said - it was said well, and making the distinction shows Obama has thought about the issue more deeply than a soundbite), with the exception of cases when the mother's life and health is at risk, McCain's raising of his hands, his sneer, his "quote" gesture and his attempt to intimate that the word "health" of the mother is a kind of political pablum, or a lie being twisted by Obama, well - I think he will get hammered, and rightfully so, for this. I don't even think this is McCain's view, to be honest - but he is limited in what he can say without alienating the religious right. Not a good place to be in, but neither is his being forced to pick a rightist like Palin, to appease the same constituency.

Early polls coming in are more strikingly in favor of Obama than for the previous debates - which surprises me, to be honest. CNN's national poll shows it 58% thinking Obama won, and a lower figure than in the past for McCain - 31%. 59% think Obama will do a better job on the economy, and 24% think McCain will. Since "it's the economy, stupid" has never likely had more meaning, this isn't good news for McCain for the dwindling window of opportunity ahead.

Still seeing some attempts to link Obama to Ayres on this forum. So - Palin incites hatred for Obama over his supposed "association" with a weathermen from 40 years ago. Crazy as it is, the attempt persists.

What I find curious is that there isn't much discussion of the fact that McCain himself served on the Board of the Council of World Freedom, during the 1980's. Lots of skeletons there - to include Sun Myung Moon, a heavy contributor, and owner of the Washington Times (you may recall this is apparently the only paper Palin can seem to read, if her relying on it for "news" is any indication). Easy enough to investigate the group - whose activities include the funding of right-wing death squads during the Contra fiasco, ex-Nazis, and the like.

I think the fallout for McCain, as a result of this debate (and in summation of all the debates), is that Obama's "style" has served him well. People don't want anger. They want calm, stability. The bleed from McCain's ticket has only been increased by each of the two previous debates, and I expect this to continue. Anything can happen, but I guess my gut says, game over.

 

Cobra Kai!

 

I think Obama is better. The last poll say it too.

 

White men tend to believe obama is NOT the choice.

 

Where did you come up w/ that?



Anyway....
I watched about 20 minutes of the debate. I just can't stand listening to two guys making hundreds of promises they have no intentions of keeping.

McCain looked like he was going to lose it.

Obama was pretty calm and collected. He wasn't taking McCain's bait and it was making McCain furious! He honestly looked like he wanted to jump across the table and punch him. HA HA!

 

McCain reacted because the bald faced lie made no sense. Then Obama obfuscated further by answering (still falsely) as if McCain had asked about Joes tax rate, not the fine. But most people won't hear that meaning of Obama's carefully lawyered responses.

 

I agreed this. McCain' speech and his face when he talks just made me don't want to listen and watch his speech. And what he said just made me

 

Actually, from what I can tell by looknig at several sources, your statement isn't true.

I don't find his use of "zero fine" confusing; particularly when McCain himself refers to the plan as a tax, and not a fine - on his own website.

A couple of fact checks:

(In terms of CNN's debunking, here is McCain's assessment, from his website:

And Fact Check:

Obama was being truthful. There is no "fine" in place, and small businesses would be exempt from the tax altogether. From Obama's plan:

Now, many will have an issue with the very heart of Obama's platform - which is very definitely a redistribution of wealth.

That said, both plans monkey with the unfettered market. Both intrude in the political-economic process. But I think it's important to discern specificities from blanket propaganda. Obama's plan is geared towards relief for the middle class, which he views as the "engine" of a national economy, while McCain's is geared towards relief from the top down. Or, as Tax Policy Center framed it:

I think it's also important to keep in mind that not only do they differ in terms of who will benefit, and who will get screwed, by their respective plans, but by independent indicators, McCain's plan will likely result in a higher deficit than Obama's. TaxVox:

 

Forgot to mention something, and somewhat surprised this wasn't picked up in the post-debate punditry. McCain simply lied when he said Biden had a "cockamamie idea to divide Iraq into three countries."

In fact, McCain is referring to a Non-Binding Senate Resolution, which urged the Bush administration to press the Iraqi government to circumscribe some of its federal powers, giving more control regionally in along the lines of the schisms in place - ethnic, center-periphery, and so forth. Nothing whatsoever the proposal to divide Iraq into 3 countries.

Personally, I saw it as a reasonable approach. It was in fact a bi-partisan rebuke of the Bush administration's complete ignorance on the subject of latent (and now, open) schisms embedded in Iraqi society: McCain failed to mention that this was a measure with the support of 26 Republicans. What he didn't mention is that while he voted in line with President Bush's wishes, 26 Republican members voted to rebuke the President's policy. With Biden, a Republican, Sam Brownback (R-Kansas) was a primary sponsor, and several Republican senators - Kay Bailey Hutchison, Arlen Specter, and Gordon Smith, were co-sponsors.

and here, from Sen. Brownback, the primary Republican Co-Sponsor:

and

Not "cockamamie," and not solely a Democratic or Biden "baby," McCain's lie notwithstanding. Full text of the Senate floor discussion here.

I personally think anyone who believes we will have achieved a lasting peace in Iraq by reliance on military fiat is deluding him or herself. The schisms in place go back centuries, and all that was accomplished with Hussein's toppling was that the lid was lifted from Pandora's Box. Military pressure will act as a temporary lid, but absent the kind of thinking in place with the Bi-Partisan resolution McCain lied about in last night's debate, I don't see any effective, permanent resolution to this area's pain (and our pain, because of it).

 

That is spooky, I was thinking exactly the same thing!

But overall McCain came over as an angry old man, desperate for someone, anyone, to love him.

 

I'm still laughing at the mistake Obama made (several times yesterday even before the debate) that nobody has noticed because they are too busy picking apart McCain's every move/word:

"I'll sum it up in three WORDS: J - O - B - S !!!"

Since when did letters become words? And there wasn't even three letters, it's four!

If Palin would have done something like that, you guys would have been all over it. Hell, Saturday Night Live would have created a special show today just so they could have a skit about how Palin can't talk.

And even though I won't be voting for either of them, I do think McCain owned that debate last night. Obama has had McCain on the defensive this whole time, causing McCain to make defensive gestures like shaking his head 'no' while Obama speaks or smirking, but McCain caused Obama to lose his cool and do the exact same thing last night!

It just makes me so angry to read these posts here because a lot of you sound like sheep, eating up every single little morsel the completely biased media is feeding you. At least turn the channel once in awhile to another news station to get another point of view, sheesh!

*Note: this thread applies to both Democrats and Republicans that post here!

PS: what happened to Grim? Did someone get their feelers hurt again?

 

People don't make mistakes? Are you seriously comparing Palin and Obama's mistakes? Really?

McCain didn't own anything once again. Google if you like.



When did either of them lose their cool? LOL

Bias media? It goes both ways... You seem to be following for the McCain propaganda.

I watch CNN,CBS news, local news,FOX,MSNBC,etc...

 

Somewhat true but there are some blacks that will vote for Obama because he's part black.

 

Doesnt matter, but post clips of Obama saying it. I know Biden did it, I dont recall Obama though.

And Biden said "a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S" So I dont know what you mean by since when did letters become words.

 

Yep, I felt the same way. But she's "angry," and she "saw Obama do it several times yesterday even before the debate," even though Obama's supposed "gaffe that she saw several times" wasn't reported by a single news outlet, anywhere on the planet.

I was going to respond, but it gets old, sometimes, to be honest. For example, this notion that McCain "handed Obama's ass to him" or Palin "did the same" over any of these debates is equally ludicrous. In addition to the several polls noted above showing otherwise, The Fox News/Lunt poll also showed Obama soundly trounced McCain in this last debate, again something I found surprising.

To compare a "mistake" made by Palin to anything done by either Biden or Obama is equally laughable, in my opinion; i.e., I don't put "I have a deep understanding of foreign policy - and I'll say it, dammit, over and over again - because my state can see Russia," or "Obama is a terrorist lover, and a traitor to his country" or any number of other pieces of Palin's stinking doo-doo to Biden's dropping a letter in a point made, well, whatever. 18 days to go.

Did anyone see McCain's ass being handed to him on Letterman last night? I was very surprised Letterman held him to the anvil, as I know he's honored McCain in the past (rightfully), but when Letterman took him to task for Palin's pick, and raised his genuine concerns for his 4-year old son's future, well - it's the most impassioned I've seen Letterman be since his first show post-9/11, with Dan Rather.

McCain's outright lying to Letterman, and the American people, saying Palin was his first choice for VP - well, I know he had to say it, I guess, but I don't think anyone is fooled any longer.

 

Yes, they tend to base votes on intellectuals issues and who is more than just talk.

Even Obama states he is all talk.

 

LOL.. it's funny but it's real. John McCain's campaign is sucks

 

What kind of link did you put on that post. The link is obtaining personal information for junk mailing.