do you think soldiers are heroes or the losers ?

Pandering and platitudes! Update your location field!

I'm not supposed to talk about your brother because you will report me and demand that I stop. But suffice it to say, if anyone was drafted, then I regret that they were forced to participate in the war and recognize their participation not of their own free will.

 

IMO attacks on ones brother, especially a brother who has died, and or attacking a user for the brother is uncalled for.

Any vet deserves respect, it's respect that us who do not serve do not have and never will, as we do not deserve it, we didn't earn it.

Even if he wasn't drafted what would it matter? He could have been a member of the military far before the war started, a member of the military like many who join to keep our great land free. They can not pick and choose to simply sit at home waiting for some unknown force to invade, they get sent where the Commander and Chief decides, and or their commanding officers.

 

7point, you won't be missed.

 

The perceptions of war have changed greatly over the years. Once war and warriors were a glorious species. Now, they are seen as oppressors and murderers and worse by some. While alexander the great killed many in war, nobody calls him murderer, he is a hero, a conqueror. But our contemporary soldiers are often projected in a bad light.

In my opinion we should leave the past behind and focus on peace. Let armies and wars be an artefact of the past. The system needs to change and the soldiers are but pawns of the system and they can't be blamed or pointed out as heroes or killers or losers or whatever. They are just doing their duty for their livelihood and whatever else their reasons are.

Let's focus on the system of war, which is fuelled by hate, mistrust, religious and cultural differences, greed, competition and so on ......... Let us look for solutions and cut to the root of the "war problem" instead of finding greatness or faults with the soldiers.

 

Goddamit it, Guerilla - not giving it a pass, not this time. Your colors were shown:

And attempting to paint it in a more honorable cloak after Wisdom's post fools no one.

Go away.

 

huh ?? missed how, i only wanted the best - there are good therapists available

you might want to consider suing government to pay you for it

 

How do we reconcile an order to bomb a village of civilians? Would you follow such an order?

I agree, but again, if you got an order to kill civilians, or to bomb a church, would you do it?

Agree. I'm not saying the soldiers are solely or exclusively to blame. The soldiers rarely if ever actually start the wars. My point is that if you get an immoral order, are you excused for following it?

I had this opinion until a couple months ago. I feel sympathy for the soldiers trapped in STOP LOSS, and I feel proud of those who try to do the right thing, or realize that war is a racket.

But I'm not going to excuse someone like McCain who admittedly ran bombing runs on civilians and villages, knowing full well that it was wrong, and then call them a hero.

This is why I tried to stay out of this thread but unfortunately succumbed to the temptation to post. I'm saying what no one wants to hear which is why I get attacked personally, not on my position that war is wrong, killing is wrong etc.

I don't hate the troops, I don't want them to come to any harm. But we have to break this cycle of lionizing the troops and turning a blind eye to what the job entails.

Then maybe the decision needs to be made before becoming a soldier if a soldier is only a tool, with no control or accountability for his actions.

I don't consider you brain washed, but I hope you would never turn your brain off and kill another human in cold blood, particularly an innocent. Obviously, that is your choice. I can't abide by it. Hitler was only powerful because people didn't question his orders. If people had refused to fight, if they had not been duped into it, he would have been a punchless nutcase.

But blind obedience gives a lot of crazy and evil people the power to cause immense damage. You've got a great brain and a good heart. Please keep them turned on.

 

Right, because heaven forbid that I clarify without contradicting my opinion.

Looks like you are back to exploiting your family members as a shield and weapon in debate. Very sad. You were doing so much better with "holding your tongue".

I understand what you are saying and there are no perfect circumstances.

But we're back to the discussion about if you know what you are being asked to do is wrong, are you not accountable for doing it anyways because someone ordered it?

The confusion here is that I hate the troops. I do not hate the troops. I don't think there is anything to be gained by spitting on or attack them. On the contrary, I would rather they all lay their guns down and we raise some money to fly them home to safety if the military will not.

I understand the need for troops during peacetime, even though it is not in the spirit of the Constitution to maintain a standing army indefinitely (because you get exactly what we have today). I don't resent people who want to serve and defend their country.

But that is not the same thing as going to a hot war in a foreign country to serve criminal politicians private ideologies and agendas, causing destruction and death on people who just want to live in their own damn country and have some peace in their lives.

I can't buy the "just following orders" bit. I don't think "we" accepted that as an excuse during the war crimes trials after WWII.

 

I cannot conceive why you are still here. I cannot conceive why, outside of a few members here - Grim, Lightless, Wisdomtool - more are not calling you on your view.

And I cannot conceive why one human being would tell another that a beloved, and recently lost, family member would be "exploited" in a goddamned web forum for points. Yep, Guerilla, got me - you have brought pain to a wound. I won't say more.

 

Is it so hard to ignore one another.

I think NPT and guerilla waste more time in fighting their little war than doing anything else. Knock it off with your armchair streetfights and smell the flowers in your garden.

No one will win this war and both of you will be worse off for it. I think you have both made your points, now press the ignore button.