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No War, No More Premeditated Murder

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by guerilla, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #21
    Funny, I don't see the dictator in that picture.
     
    soniqhost.com, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  2. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #22
    I see his cronies
     
    ThraXed, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  3. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #23
    [​IMG]

    Here is a more recent picture of them executing gay men, image what they would like to do to the country that allows gays to get married.
     
    soniqhost.com, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  4. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #24
    Yeah that was bad but they stopped that ages ago, they pay for them to have sex changes. I don't see any western country doing that.
     
    ThraXed, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  5. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #25
    Actually they were Kurds who were pushing for autonomy.
     
    soniqhost.com, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  6. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #26
    Umm, did you even read your own article?

    On August 26, 1979, Bahrami learned that judge he knew would be trying Kurds the following day at the Sanandaj airport. In a 30-minute trial, 11 prisoners were charged with crimes of firearm trafficking, murder, and inciting riots, and were sentenced to death.
     
    ThraXed, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  7. homebizseo

    homebizseo Peon

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    #27
    I this quote for real. They kill people who have consensual sex. Are you sure that is why the people were hanged?
     
    homebizseo, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  8. guerilla

    guerilla Notable Member

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    #28
    That's the propaganda line.

    His successor, our guy The Shah, would have his police round people up, and amputate them for laughs. He was the model for Saddam.

    Then our blowback was that there was a fundamentalist whackjob revolution.

    If we had left things alone, Iran would probably still be a thriving parliamentary democracy with strong ties to the West.

    Did you see my link in the OP? Hard to tell an Iranian from a Saudi, or a Kuwaiti, or an Israeli.
     
    guerilla, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  9. soniqhost.com

    soniqhost.com Notable Member

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    #29
    The article came from the wall street journal

    http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB116499510215538266-w6oLtTyb6LO2glORvqxTV1PwiTM_20061211.html?mod=blogs
     
    soniqhost.com, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  10. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #30

    Well maybe we should make a global appology to iran for helping to destroy democracy in its country in the 1950's. I havent heard one " Im sorry" yet?????????

    on a side note here we go again with gtechs BSSSSS which i have proven wrong time and time again. No it wasnt al quiada that dismantled parliament it was our government that helped to do that in iran. You still spouting off the same ole bs. Guys for anyone that has an inkling to believe these lies go back to the debate between me and gtech on this subject and you will uderstand why he never brought it up again till now. The will of the iranian people(the people of iran that elected mossadegh as their president) was threatened by the covert actions of our government and the british government in the 1950's. Mossadegh dismantled parliament because of this, and never once before this disobeyed the laws of the land.

    People the british and american governments combined were trying to take out a democratically elected leader of iran and install a dictator. How do you think our leaders would react if our parliament was being supplanted by iran intelligence people?????????????
    I think Gtech would just hand the country over to iran cause that is what he excpected mossadegh to do.

    Please Gtech , this is getting old, you were proven wrong. If you wanna debate mossadegh again ill set up another thread with pleasure in this category on dp.
    HMMMM people can we guess what gtechs answer is?
    My guess is no or no comment lol.


    Guerilla YOU DA MAN, thanks again for putting into words my feelings and the feelings of so many others here that are searching for the truth and arent flag waving puppets .
     
    pingpong123, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  11. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #31
    Who are "we?" I thought you were from Lebanon? I'm not sure if Mosadeq ever apologized for violating his country's constitution and dismantling parliament in an attempt to maintain a power grab. Do you recall if he ever apologized for taking advantage of the trust placed into him, by the people of Iran?
     
    GTech, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  12. pingpong123

    pingpong123 Well-Known Member

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    #32
    Again your wrong. Im american , i was born here and my parents are from lebanon. Huge difference. Like i said before our government was about to subvert the democratic parliament of the iranian people (was was later show to be correct by our very secretive OPERATION AJAX. He saw what was coming and tried to stop it not because he wanted power but because he loved his country and his people. For anyone that wants to refute Gtechs posts just do a light search on google for Operation AJAX.
    People notice how gtech doesnt once talk about how our government went in there and took out mossadegh and installed a dictator THE SHAH whos secret police the savak was among the most brutal in modern history.

    You combate lies like this with facts and the truth.

    PS: if you care about the iranian people so much why not ask them who their hero is? I will place any kind of bet with you that they will say Mossadegh. Why ? because i know many of them. Even the iranian jewish people loved mossadegh.
    God bless THE TRUTH
     
    pingpong123, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  13. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #33
    Ah, that explains it. Now I understand.

    The truth is, Mossadeq did violate his country's constitution and dismantled parliament to maintain power.

    Oh, but it goes much deeper than this. Britain was the major player here (not to toss blame out) in that the Shah, in 1901, owed Britain a substantial amount of money. In order to reduce this debt, the Shah granted Britain a 60 year oil concession to search for oil there.

    60 years? Why is this important, ping? 1901 + 60 years. That's 1961. Can we agree on that?

    It took Britain 7 years before they finally found oil. A huge investment in time, materials and labor. But, remember, Iran gave Britain a 60 year concession, right?

    But in the 1930s, Iran renegged on that promise giving concessions to Hitler. It took a year, but the concession was restored, but with less area for research. So, Britain, who was owed money by Iran and given a deal agreed upon, later reneggs on that deal.

    Fast forward to 1951. Mossadeq comes to power and what does HE want to do? Renegg on Iran's commitment to Britain. Remember, Britain still had ten more years under their agreement. Britain took ALL the risk, up front, to reduce Iran's debt. Britain did the exploration, Britain spent seven years looking for oil on a promise from Iran. And now, Mossadeq wants to break that promise.

    So, you bet, Britain had an interest here and a VALID interest. Britain and Iran had negotiated a deal in good faith, Britain invested tremendous resources and commitment to discovering oil, and it was paying back Iran's debt.

    The time was post WWII and Britain had ten years left on their deal with Iran, and Mossadeq starts talking about renegging on the deal. Britain contacts the US. The US attempts to mediate a compromise between Mossadeq and Britain, with the Shah, but it was a no go. Iran, was prematurely backing out of their deal. A commitment, a promise, in exchange for reducing their debt to Britain.

    Britain had a legitimate, valid, negotiated claim to Iran's oil for sixty years. Mossadeq was trying to back out of his country's commitment. So yes, many Iranians probably saw him as a hero. But that doesn't make it right. Mossadeq's mistake was not honoring his country's commitment to Britain, who negotiated in good faith, the rights to oil in Iran in exchange for reducing Iran's legitimate debt to Britain.

    When Iran failed to hold up to it's commitment, thanks to Mossadeq who chose to break a commitment his country had with Britain, Britain asked the US for help in overthrowing him.

    Not only was Britain and the US involved, but Iranians as well, including the Iranian Army.

    So when you say "we" overthrew Mossadeq, as if it were just some random decision made, in an attempt to lay blame on your country, it's intellectually dishonest.

    Imagine that you have a 30 year mortgage. After paying on it for twenty years, you decide the mortgage company is evil and that you've paid them enough money and are not going to pay them anymore. You have a thirty year contract. It's a commitment, between you and the mortgage company.

    Yet you stop making payments. Six months after you stop making payments, you are served with a notice of foreclosure. The mortgage company forces you out of your house for non-payment and failing to live up to your commitment, and you lose your home.

    That's exactly what happened to Mossadeq. It doesn't matter if he was perceived to doing what was in the best interest of Iran, he deliberately chose to stop honoring a contract his country had with Britain. Britain, in order to protect it's interest, called in the Sheriff to help evict him.

    Mossadeq's failure was that he wanted too much power, too quick. He violated his country's constitution and disbanded it's parliament in order to grab power and he chose to renege on a contract he had with Britain. Had he done the right thing, by honoring the commitment his country had with Britain for another ten years, he may very well have still been Prime Minister, THEN he could have legally nationalized his country's oil. But he didn't. He got greedy and chose to do the wrong thing by not honoring his country's commitment with Britain.

    So the notion that "we," as in the United States of America, just up and decided to overthrow Mossadeq, is intellectually dishonest. First and foremost, this was an issue with Britain and Iran. Mossadeq made a foolish and greedy decision. He could have waited out those ten more years, but he didn't. Britain, the US, Iranians and the Iranian Army helped overthrow him and for valid reasons. You don't pay the mortgage, you lose the home. There was also speculation of their involvement with the USSR.

    Caring about Iranians and who their hero is, has nothing to do with the facts surrounding Mossadeq. It doesn't matter if they believe he was a hero, he made mistakes and deliberate mistakes and he was taken out of power. He had a choice. He made the wrong choice. He was foreclosed.
     
    GTech, Jun 29, 2008 IP
  14. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #34

    And this is an American Family having Thanksgiving together.

    These are not murderous, vicious, or evil people.

    Don't believe the propaganda about American either!

    Don't let Yoda spoil your Christmas or trip to Paris and China. You don't want to get caught doing the floppy walk now, do you?

    Hell, if you want you could have a Ball in Cartagena. Or maybe just another Thanksgiving.

    So much of the world is full of beauty and splendor. Its not the place. It's the nutjobs that run it that is problematic. We all know the people of Iran, particularly the young people are pro-democracy, pro-Christianity, pro-Western, and pro-American.
     
    Mia, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  15. maverick123

    maverick123 Peon

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    #35
    Most of us always stood for peace.........it's those vested and manipulated (ridiculaous+sick minded) politicians and sick business people who encourages wars and their benefits :mad:...........Iran should not be made another victim of false propaganda by U.S. and Israel.
     
    maverick123, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  16. Supper

    Supper Peon

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    #36
    I agree. I suppose if war was a desire to make peace, but it's not. War is justice.
     
    Supper, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  17. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #37
    I don't know if you have seen any of the wars in the past 100 years, but none of them were 'justce'. :rolleyes:
     
    ThraXed, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  18. Supper

    Supper Peon

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    #38
    Yeah, I'm sure Hitler getting spanked for mass murdering people was a pillow fight.
     
    Supper, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  19. ThraXed

    ThraXed Peon

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    #39
    Wow. Saying WW2 was justice is just an absolute insult to all the people that died there, it was one of the worst disasters the world has ever seen.
     
    ThraXed, Jun 30, 2008 IP
  20. Supper

    Supper Peon

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    #40
    I don't think you're familiar with the term justice lol.

    I suppose if you were walking down the street and saw a women being raped, you'd look the other way.
     
    Supper, Jun 30, 2008 IP