God, you are thick. I don't know what part of: Blazes by your obtuse set of ears. I am a Berkeley grad, and not a socialist, and saying so is very much slander - something you wallow in, I understand, but wrong, nevertheless. As to proof of your support for the legality of child porn, I guess you can repeat and repeat the lie that I've provided no proof, and it may actually convince some people - congrats. I long ago, and repeatedly, provided such proof, until it became ridiculous in the extreme to continue repeating the proof, and joining your baiting to continue taking the thread off topic.
Right, so you are a Berkley grad, and you have socialist ideologies, but you aren't a Berkley socialist. Got it. You know, I don't care if you're a socialist. It's that you think you have the right to steal from others against their will. You've provided nothing. See as how you have time again today, and this is my thread, let's finish the discussion. As per your previous postings, you did not provide any proof that I am for legalizing child porn. And that shouldn't be surprising, because I am not for legalizing child porn. I'll ask for the umpteenth time. Post the passage where I endorse legalizing child porn. Does it exist? Or will you continue to post lies in an attempt to discredit me?
Right, your typical game. You are not for any laws for or against child porn. More bs and obfuscation. You don't support laws that would allow society to criminalize the behavior of using children in porn. Fine, but own up to it. You oppose laws that make child porn illegal. Or am I wrong and you support those laws? Which is it? Do you support laws making porn with kids illegal or not?
That's not quite correct, but it is better than the tactics NPT tries. You do understand the difference between decriminalize and make legal, right? I am for laws that prevent child abuse. However, I do know the law is imperfect, and that the definition of a child, is not so simple as saying 17 and younger, 18 and younger. I mean, a 17 year old can go fight and die in a war with his parent's consent, and yet he can't drink a beer by law. In South Carolina, you can have oral sex at 14, but you can't smoke a cigarette until 18. The age of consent laws are arbitrary and all over the place. Mostly because it's nearly impossible to quantify at what age "kids" are conscious and able to make some decisions for themselves. So if a 15 year old like that Hannah Montana actress does a photo spread in Vanity Fair that is very racy, is that child porn? Because by law, it might be. Can Hannah Montana bear some skin for her career, and yet we'd deny the next door neighbors kid the same right because they aren't a big star? I don't know. These aren't easy questions to answer. I believe that a crime requires a victim. If the children are victimized, then it is a crime. If Hannah Montana does it as a career stunt, or flashes her bra in photos that make it onto the web, then I don't think there is a victim, and hence no crime. Even if the age of consent laws say that it is. I can't even get a half decent discussion on consent going, because I think that some people may have the right idea, but for some reason, they exclude the parents from their ire. Maybe my mistake is trying to answer these discussions thoughtfully and honestly, not fanatically screaming bloody murder and advocating state tyranny over individual rights to investigate every adult-child relationship.
As I said, from the beginning, Guerilla's view: as long as kids "consent" to doing porn, they "aren't being victimized." On another thread, it was Change the story, depending on who is listening. And the reel starts over and over again. When are kids doing porn not being victimized? Should child porn be illegal?
guerilla, if these stories about children turn out to be true, then for the first time in my life I am no longer proud to be an American. I am kind of surprised that information that is apparently this old is just leaking out now. Another thing to consider is that we continually see armed children fighting in the Muslim countries. I somehow don't think that these kids have been rounded up randomly. What are we supposed to do with them when we catch them trying to kill our guys? I don't have an answer. It is also intuitive that you cannot believe accusations that come from present or former prisoners, especially Iraqis. They had to continually lie just to survive under Saddam and it has become part of their nature to lie about everything. I thought being a socialist was a requirement for graduation at Berkley.
Like I said, it's hard to find an intelligent debate on consent. Lots of hot air, accusations and slander, but not too much rational thinking and considered responses.
Now more than ever, it is time to be proud and to be an American who exemplifies the goodness and morality we believe we stand for. The crimes of some dirtbags are not a reflection on each and every citizen. That is a nationalist/fascist lie. I guess we could come home, but that would be too simple. I don't know either. But if young boys are being filmed and sodomized in a US military run prison, with the *nudge, nudge - wink wink* of the command, then that is heinous. My view of Americans, Chinese, Iraqis, Iranians and even Mexicans is not so myopic. People inherently are good. They want to do good. They want to get along and avoid violence and confrontation. I tend to believe Sy Hersh. He has excellent sources in the government, and consistently has scoops on the goings on within the inner circles of the executive and military. Bravo.
That sounds real nice. But that view may in itself may be myopic and is in direct opposition with the entire history of the human race. There isn't a single spot on this planet where humans do not find someone else to oppose. It's part of our nature. While most of us would like to get along and avoid violence and confrontation, the reality is that there is a percentage in every society that drives us or forces us in the opposite direction. People naturally find differences in other groups of people. Race, color, ethnic background, religion and social status all create divisions that cannot be avoided (except in theory in the Utopian socialist society that will never exist). It's not just a human thing; it is part of nature. Animals conflict with each other in a similar manner. Everybody and everything is competing with something else and that creates violence and conflict.
I recall posting that the FLDS parents conspire with the groom & the minister to commit a crime when an underage girl is handed over to an older man in the farce marriage ceremony. And I said for each instance there are at least 4 conspirators, 2 parents, the groom, and the minister. So, yeah, my ire includes the parents. And for the current topic. I agree that we torture and murder. I am horrified, disgusted, and even somewhat depressed that our government is doing this. I'm not certain of the details of it all, but that really doesn't matter. This is against all that we have ever stood for. In case the other readers didn't know it, this is not news. I've known about the torture and murder for a couple of years. Also, we have arrested hundreds of people, never to be seen or heard from again. Just like a totalitarian dictatorship. OH! I guess that's what we are then. I don't see what we can do about it it the moment. Bush does whatever he wants, regardless of our laws, or traditions, or international law, or accepted standards of decency. The only way to stop it now is impeachment, and that looks unlikely. The next opportunity to put a stop to the depravity is the election. We have to get the republicans out, because they all fell in line with Bushs despicable policies. Some people in this administration will forever be afraid to travel to several foreign countries for fear of being charged with crimes according to international law. So, Guerilla, what do you suggest we do about this?
I tend to skim read, so sorry if I missed that in the other thread which apparently I did. Too late to vote Ron Paul so.... You've already mentioned before that you are active, so that's good. I guess educate people on the issues and get them involved if you can. Get behind this legislation, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Freedom_Agenda That's a republican/conservative group, but I believe there is a liberal/Democrat group with very similar goals and legislation. Yep this one by Naomi Wolf, http://www.americanfreedomcampaign.org/ Other than that, stay informed and keep educating people. Don't be afraid to challenge your Member of Congress by calling their office, or getting some friends to call into radio shows to protest, do a letter to the editor campaign etc... Just gotta keep our feet churning.
Hmm speaking about asking France, we would not be a country more than likely without their help so I find the 'we saved their ass' type of arguments as it appears you are going for extremely lame to say the least. Talk about needing to grab a history book.
al qaida spokespeople couldn't have done a better job at propaganda themselves. Just reading through some of the usual dishonesty an propaganda he is so famous for, that gives aid and comfort to enemies of the US. Not a bad job, for a Canadian. Like the last time he made a major effort to dishonestly portray the US in a bad light, this one uses the same pattern. It brings to light a few articles from what are normally perceived as "credible" sources, to lend credibility to the claims, then as usual, the "wtf are these?" sources that have no credibility come in to play. Let's review. Guerilla, who has never started a single positive thread about America, a country he supposedly lives in, but I believe lives in Canada (Windsor, is it, guerilla?), wants the world to believe that the US is torturing children. His source? A blogspot post, but of course! And the sources within? A reference to a former prisoner giving testimony. Ah, that's so sweet! So many of these "former prisoners" have been debunked now. It's an allegation, but no one is quicker to "convict" the military (the military he pretends to care about, and use them as a tool by saying he wants them home) over an allegation by a terrorist, than guerilla. AGS used to be faster, but not anymore. The same military that he says are purveyors of genocide. The next source, are allegations as well. But even worse, the allegations go all the way back to 2002. A time when the war had barely begun and things were not as clear then. They are, however, very clear today. But heh, why not drudge up some allegations from five years ago? With al qaida defeated in Iraq and the level of violence dropped so signficantly, let's drum up something old. The next source is by far, the most credible source of all. A link to google with some preselected keywords. My gawd, if only a google link would hold up in court But what about those children that guerilla wants the world to know the country he pretends to live in, are responsible for? Let's wait for that. Right now, we need to sprinkle in some of those "other" types of sources that have no credibility. Que up "information clearing house," a propaganda site that makes up it's own news and is especially anti-semitic. Gee, wonder why guerilla (of all people) would be there? Go figure. Ah, but we need at least one more. How about common dreams? The liberal bastion of anti-war/anti-us commentary drivel. Why not? Makes for good measure and besides, they are "so" credible Now to the juicy part! This is the kicker part. Here's why. The "blogger" author wants to convey credibility. To do so, he first introduces a few links to reputable sources, despite the fact they have nothing to do with his claim. Still, it's the credibility he seeks. Then he sprinkles in the common dreams and information clearing house. After all, no one would take such seriously, unless there were a few links to some 'credible' sites in there, right? Enter the link to, of all things, a Fox news story? OMG, Fox News!!! (note, I added the appropriately placed three exclamation pionts !!! as mandated by the ron paul supporter creed!) But what's missing? Well, the author hopes you won't check the Fox news link, because what it demonstrates is, these "children" are terrorists, assist terrorists, have attacked the US Soldiers that guerilla is always the first to condemn. Still, with some dishonesty in the link title, it can be used to fool *some* of *the people.* Nothing short of pathetic. But it goes on. Next, we revisit "information clearing house," an anti-semitic propaganda machine, to quote Seymour Hersh. Seymour Hersh? Really? Again, why doesn't it surprise me to see guerilla associated with that name? Lacking any credible sources for the outlandish claims, and having only used a few as diversionary sources, we proceed further to yet another blog as a source, followed by (gasp, say it isn't so...not the uber conservative using DKOS?) none other than the cesspool of all things hatred for the US, Daily Kos. Now that we've put the juicy parts of the propaganda in the middle, complete with diversionary sources at the beginning to attempt to lend credibility to the claim which is false and misleading, let's close it out with an op-ed piece to WAPO. Hey, most people find WAPO credible, right? That will surely cinch it. But what about those children being tortured? Huh? You didn't see it? I didn't either. G...you really should be ashamed of yourself. I've seen you make up a lot of dishonest things to portray America in the worst possible light. After all, that is what your mission is. But this was nothing short of pathetic. You've truly reached a new low.
I think Browntwns done a fantastic job discrediting himself with Ad hominems and made up attacks. While your record on using WMDs on innocent civilians is plain as day, I oppose all war, all terrorism and all violence whenever possible. Thraxed, swaymedia and any others do not, and have never spoken for me. You might want to rethink pointing fingers, when you're the one proud of the blood on Israel's hands. I don't know if you think being pro-Israel makes you pro-Jew, but there are millions of Jews who oppose the policies and tactics of the Israeli government. Some of them are even in Israel.
You've quoted that "the U.S. has imprisoned 2,500 children since 9/11 as "enemy combatants", in violation of the Geneva Convention against classifying children as POWs." The majority are believed to be 16 or 17 years old. In the United States a 17-year-old can enlist in the U.S. army, with parental consent. I don't believe that it is against the Geneva Convention to hold 16 or 17 year old combatants as POWS So would would you have suggested that the allies should have done with the SS and armed Hitler Youth in WW2? The SS and Hitler Youth were no joke. For example, the 12th SS-Panzer-Division Hitlerjugend was a fully equipped Waffen-SS panzer division, with the majority of the enlisted cadre being drawn from Hitler Youth boys between the ages of sixteen and eighteen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth Didn't Obama's wife already stay that
I quoted the blog post for discussion. To be honest with you, I'm more concerned about young Iraqi kids possibly being anally raped by US forces or contractors. Ah yes, it all comes back to Hitler. Hitler, terists, fear!