Gaza's Humanitarian Crisis - All thanks to the Neocons - BBC Report

Israel is inflicting collective punishment on the entire Gaza population.

Have you guys really lost sight of what justice really is?

The people should not suffer - there is never a reason to rationalize the suffering of civilians.

The keystone to the problem is Israels stranglehold of Gaza. Israel, still controls the strip's airspace, territorial water and offshore maritime access, as well as its side of the Gaza-Israeli border. Israel also controls the population registry, entry of foreigners, imports and exports as well as the tax system. The Israel occupation of Gaza is clearly not over.

 

Of course they have lost sight. Many posters here think that the terrorism of Hamas validates and legalizes the terrorism of Israel in return.

Quite simply, these posters have no moral compass.

This topic gets me all worked up.

 

Right, because Israel should just allow Hamas to bring whatever they want across the border and attack Israel with it.

That is their stated goal and they are doing it now. Maybe instead of smuggling weapons, they should be smuggling in the necessities they lack and blame Israel.

 

The fact that you continue to apologize and make excuses for depriving people living in camps humanitarian aid is just stunning to me.

Do you think that starving out these people does anything to undermine Hamas? Or does it unite the people even more against Israel?

Every one of these situations, finds common ground in the CIA concept of blowback. Every intervention has a consequence, sometimes an unintended one.

 

Supposedly Israel no longer controls Gaza (pfft), so who is Israel to say what they can and can't bring into Gaza? Whether it's guns or diapers, look at the principle.

Good point.

Obviously starving the civilian population is doing absolutely no good whatsoever.

 

yes, it accomplishes no good, and it's a vicious cycle, we as a species seem doomed to repeat over and over.

It's been documented so many times throughout western history that most wars are started for profit, ideology and power.

Not security, safety and freedom.

But still, we persist in buying the lies.

I read a post today, where a poster who is much more pro-government than me, basically thinks that if we leave Iraq too quickly or early, it will be bad. Now, the people who are going to manage us staying are essentially the same ones (establishment politicians) who managed us going in illegally and under lies.

So in order to save lives, we are going to leave the murderers in charge. In order to save lives, we are going to continue the war and occupation. In order to do the right thing, we are going to continue doing the wrong thing.

And yet if you try to point out the irrationality of the situation, people will shout you down. Many people have lost or never developed the ability to think rationally.

 

By the way, where are pictures of all these starving people? How many people has Israel starved to death according to you?

 

Gaza After Disengagement

 

Does it really matter if its 1 or 1,000? If the policy is set out to intentionally deny food and aid, isn't the predictable outcome pain and possibly death?

It's absolutely fascinating to me that you won't admit that such actions are brutal, and when directed at civilians, terrorism.

 

I admire your doggedness guerilla in continuing to debate with browntwn, I've given up on him as he's a lost cause.

He's just the same as GTech, but not quite as annoying!

 

guerilla is just projecting. He's the king of reporting posts that are critical of his ceaseless criticisms of the US, Israel, Jews, Christians and Soldiers. Kind of reminds me of the school yard kid that goes around kicking others in the shins and calling them names. One day someone kicks him back and he runs off to tell "teacher" that the others are being mean to him.

Yep. But watch, he'll try to turn it around that you are attacking him and play the victim role. As we all can see, he's still doing what many are taking note of...one sided attacks on Israel. Not unlike the USA either. Even more illuminating...he'll find a way to blame America or offer red herrings in the forum of dishonest accusations about "our" (not his) country to side step having to account for his comments.

What's missing? Sympathy for terrorists isn't missing, that's for sure. Pathological lies are not missing, as they are made up on the spot in great abundance when cornered, to serve as red herrings. We're certainly not missing any criticism of Israel, real or (as usual) made up.

The part that's missing? Not a peep, other than sympathy, for a terrorist organization.

I say let him keep going. He's doing a much better job of exposing his true hated for Israel, the US and anything "western" than any of us could ever do. The great part about it is, no one is forcing him to expose his hatred; he's actually using the freedoms of the country he so despises to do so of his own free will. Gotta love true freedom

I've been seeing these same patterns of ceaselessly attacking the US, Israel, Christians, Jews and Soldiers from him since he arrived. I've never seen him say a bad word about a terrorist.

If he were as kind to the US and Israel as he is terrorist organizations, I'd call him a great American patriot. I won't though, because there is no kindness to the US or Israel and I'd probably receive an infraction because he would consider it an insult.

Pfft... The UK seems to have it's troubles with ungrateful spoiled second and third generation immigrants too

 

That's well and good, but if I'm wrong with my FACTS then someone let me know. I'm not interested in what popular opinion is, as you can see from my debates with Earl and browntwn, they can't answer tough questions or explain their rationale, because the position they are supporting, isn't theirs, and I doubt they came to those positions through consideration or analysis.

I see GTech is back to stalking me. I assume it's the same old lies and fabrications.

I was reading an article about the Iraq war yesterday, and it said that only the most "hawkish of hawks" still believed there were WMDs in Iraq. Then I thought of our mutual friend and mumbled to myself, "don't forget dumb and dumber"

 

this vote is before hamas latest offer of truce or whatever you want to call it.
a lot of people are not thinking logicly to these issues and think with their heart.they want to say that for me to support israel i have to support the extreeme right of israeli political spectrum.this has weakened the left for the last few years and this is very dangerous for israel also. it is time that people start thinking with their brain we have been trying these military solutions for decades now and they are a failure. they have not resolved the issues
there is a peace initiative on the table and supposedly going on. the meat of the issues should be discussed there.but they are talking garbage.
the cease fire with hamas will give some necessary relief to both sides while these process can go on.
of course if you are trying to starve the palestanians to submission then this is not a good idea but i am not game for that.

syria had a representative in defiance to iran.

we can talk about how a peacefull solution might exist if you want but i do not want to mix these two issues.

i think it was after the report that one of the arabs was quoted saying that if there is peace they would be willing to deal with israelis as arab jews. to me it sounded positive.

isolation does not work look at cuba how many times we want to make the same mistakes but that is another issue

that is exactly my point . of course there are no guarantees but that means we have to proceed carefully not that we must not proceed.
step one should be accepting this truce with hamas for 1 year.this is to stop the rockets for Israelis and stop their deteriorating situation which is necessary if peace is going to prevail
second step should be finding a map that Israelis can live with and Palestinians can make it successful.
Israelis must make sure that not insisting on something that will not be a doable thing for palestanians. as a failed situation like this breeds violence. there is no logic to this. also Israelis must insist on inclusion of hamas and islamic jihad and any other major groups in the negotiations. to make a deal with fatah alone is not going to do israel or palestanians any good.
then there should be an orderly process for this map to get hold within a certain time period.
i think the key to the suceess would be an infusion of money in the territories
to build a large but organized and planned city building. employing the palestanian youth and crating housing will create enough hope to defeat the need for violence.

 

we have declared hamas a terrorist organization and any individual or country that does that is going to be subject to some kind of punishment.

 

couple of things pizzaman. I have no love for the hard right, fundamental groups in Israel that want settlements in palestinian lands. They are a significant cause for this endless war. Not the entire cause but they contribute to the problems.

In fact I think all fundamentalists/ hard theory/incredibly religeous groups invariably are the causes of these problems.

I'm not sure if I made this point or not. From what I read, the attendance and interest in the Annapolis peace talks from groups like the Saudi's (and if the Syrians were there, I didn't know that) was possibly a reaction to their greater fear of Iran.

Once the NIE report came out suggesting Iran is not pursuing nukes, the Saudi fear of Iran diminished and their willingness to back a Palestinian/Israeli peace effort evaporated.

To the extent that there is truth to that statement, then maybe in the interest of peace in Palestine, one needs to restoke the fear of Iran.

History has shown that peace is possible with Israel. There are two existing long lasting peace pacts. The arab leaders need to take repsonsability to effect more peace.

Most simply don't want to do that. Having a mutual "enemy" of so called arab brothers is an easy way to detract from any all problems in one's own country, especially if that country is despotic and controlling.

I'd certainly like to see a greater level of peace take hold.

Its only been about 60 years.

 

their fear of iran is not about the nuclear . all these countries are dictatorships. they have little or no support among their people and iran is gaining some support among their people. this is the greater danger for them.and israel.
a peace with their support will gain them the necessary legitimacy to counter it.
while the continuation of this path emphasizes their inability and puts iran as the only country that is willing to face israel.

 

May Allah (swt) save all those who are suffering.

 

I honestly thought that he had gone and joined the Army to go and fight that lovely war that he keeps defending, but alas.

He's back in full flow and the copy and paste is worse than ever!

 

I think he came back because someone revived the "Gay Marriage" thread.