Islam and the Mainstream Muslim View - Please Contribute your Thoughts

With the zionists!

 

I'd like to ask us all to keep to the topic. I created the thread to deal with a subject of concern. With respect to all, may we please stay with that question?

 

Aceday, I watched the video, thanks. A very worthwhile video - a guy I'd like to talk with, and likely befriend.

Here's a thought. If the media responds to ratings - why not make what Islam is as "media attractive" as what it isn't? Why not a mass protest on the order the world has never seen to say, "THESE ASSHOLES HAVE HIJACKED MY RELIGION! THEY ARE NOT ISLAM. WE ARE!" This, while tv cameras are whirring and newspapers are salivating at the coverage. I would so applaud such a thing that I very well may be motivated to join in, though an atheist.

I guess I'm mirroring what Ali said, in the video - why not a major Mullah waging a TV campaign to right the misperceptions, for instance? If I were Muslim, and this is what is being put forth in the name of my faith, I'd be royally pissed, and mobilized to do something about it.

This is the heart of my concern. Nothing more.

 

Moved from other thread...

Personally, I think there isn't a public outcry because people who escape the crucible of 3rd world poverty and authoritarian tyranny realize that going back to effect change is wasted when you're own adopted government works to undermine you.

The only answer I can give you, is to never make decisions from a perspective of fear or dread. Your lower brain will override your higher brain, and then progress cannot be made. These are things that we can control.

I really believe Al Queda will expire, but that's contingent upon not further feeding the flame. Attacking Iran, supporting the Saudi oligarchy, supporting guys like Musharaff in Pakistan (at the expense of a moderate, westernized movement) is counterproductive.

I really believe that there are elements in our foreign policy planners, that want to see and inspire these conflicts, because it justifies their agenda. It's the only way I can reconcile why Bin Laden has never been captured. The excuses sound so hollow.

 

I watched this video today that was quite interesting:
Interview with 4 young pakistani's

 

Excellent video! I'll post it in the other thread.

 

I think that video will be of interest to NPT in his quest for some peace of mind.

 

according to the Qur'an killing a person is same as killing all the universe.

 

The question I am putting forth in the thread isn't really whether al-qaeda is or isn't a reality. But, dealing with the video and its question raised:

It may be that many Pakistanis believe Bin Laden/al-qaeda is a CIA creation. From what I have seen, this is a widespread belief among many in Pakistan and elsewhere.

I conclude it's a crock. How does one explain al-qaeda's theological and political origins in movements that precede the cold war and the creation of the CIA, namely the Muslim Brotherhood, created in 1928?

The question isn't trivial. The views as we know them of al-qaeda and its variants directly stem from the views of one of the Muslim Brotherhood's leading lights - Sayyid Qutb. If we assume some sort of CIA conspiracy in fabricating the existence of Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, Sayyid Qutb's views directly correlate to the publically promulgated views of today's al-Qaeda and its variants. If there isn't a conspiracy, the connection to al-qaeda is easy enough to see - Sayyid Qutb's brother, Muhammad Qutb, was introduced to Zawahiri early on and heavily influenced him, as Qutb did Bin Laden. The views of Sayyid Qutb were transferred, I would say, in toto to these men, from everything I can tell. Was Sayyid Qutb himself a CIA plant? Did he go to his public execution as a CIA creation? I think not.

 

That's not what I am saying NPT. Your question was about why Muslims do not rise up against the militants.

From the video, I got that many Pakistanis don't regard these militants as representing Islam or it's mainstream views. To them, Bin Laden isn't very real.

 

I can understand your concerns. These people were too pissed off by the danish cartoons insulting the Prophet. And even if most Muslims felt the protests by the extremists were extremely ugly, NO ONE could ever think of a counter-protest --- against what? Their counter-protest would be painted as a support of danish cartoons.

Can you imagine, the most forbidden thing in Islam being supported by Muslims???

You know by know how sensitive the topic is... Why would anyone in their right mind touch such a sensitive subject. People have other things to do instead of listening to or responding to extremists.

Now you know the answers. If you want to know anything else, we could talk.

And don't mind guru's comments, he just thinks you have malicious intents...

Peace..

 

Gauharjk -

I appreciate and respect your post, but can't agree. The protests were advocating mass murder, nothing less. It seems pretty basic to me that it would be simple enough to frame a counter-protest in the same way any other counter-protest is framed - against the protest. The people protesting weren't respecting your Prophet, were they? They were in apparent transgression of Islam. Why not a counter-protest along the lines of "Respect the Prophet - Reject Murder in his Name!" Such a thing isn't supporting insulting your Prophet; it rejects violence advocated in his name.

It just seems to me that silence in the face of such vile filth only feeds the notion that most Muslims want bloodshed - and I can't accept this is true. Even an authoritative Mullah, as I said, doing a cogent interview in the quiet of a T.V. studio - it would go miles in building bridges. And I just haven't seen anything.

If I have blinders on, or have otherwise been denied access to news that shows some of the above, I would love for them to be removed; truly.

Thank you on the guru interpretation. From what I can tell, guru-seo lives and breathes by platitudes. I don't give him any credence.

 

I understand. I also understand that there are many that believe he is a creation, as I say above. But then we're still back to square one.

If they don't represent Islam or its mainstream views, why not rise up in a firestorm of indignance to say so? As I said in the beginning - whether from a western conspiracy, or a reality born in intellectual lineage - if al-qaeda and its views are in fact a travesty of my faith, why not be screaming like hell from every available avenue, this isn't my faith?

 

Well yeah brother, I don't claim to have all of the answers.

The Pakistanis I know don't behave like that. There are a lot of moderates. People who practice their faith and just want to be left alone. Remember, Islam is decentralized, not centrally planned. At best Muslims congregate on Eid and for Friday prayers. But most prayer and observance is done privately.

To be fair though, I can't speak for these people.

Not a big conspiracy theory guy, but let's imagine for a minute that Bin Laden is made up. Wouldn't that make protest moot?

 

northpointaiki can you please summarize the above in one Question; I am not sure what you are asking?
Sincerely,

 

And this is the point, I think - as I say above, even presuming he's made up, a resounding no. Maybe moreso. If I felt in my heart of hearts that this guy isn't even for real, yet his views are being praised, vociferously so (I would say, worshipped - as in the London video, "we love you Usama! We love you Usama! We love you Usama!), I'd be damn sure I stood up to say HELL NO. THIS VIEW ISN'T MINE. Know what I mean?

 

I liked your idea.

You are absolutely correct. Muslims could have done that. Actually, there are no moderate Muslim leaders. Most people who call themselves "leaders" are people of extreme ideology.

And this extreme ideology is being flamed by USA's unquestioned support to Israel, unquestioned support of the corrupt Saudi dictatorship, support for the anti-democracy military in Turkey... Till 1990, USA armed and supported Saddam Hussain, who was till then the most hated figure in the Middle East, a mass murderer. But still, US supported him.

What would moderates speak? They have no answers. What will they say to their supporters? Actions of Western world can be seen on TV everyday. Why did Hamas win the election? Because Palestinians saw the Abbas government is incapable of achieving anything, and is very corrupt.

So, when the "Champion of Democracy" didn't like the election results in Palestine, it decided to punish the entire population, by starving them.

These issues sting right in the heart, my friend...

It all comes back to the same thing. If the Western world stops feeding the extremists of their reasons, then extremists will automatically loose support.

 

Absolutely, but I mean, how many people (apparently 70%) in this country want out of Iraq and actually take to the streets?

I'd say a good 50% of Americans don't approve of unconstitutional warantless wiretapping. How many Americans take to the street to standup for the Constitution?

My experience has always been that the fringes are the ones who make the most noise. Alex Jones gets his truther brigade out all of the time. Code Pink gets thrown out of Washington all of the time.

But on a large scale? Most people don't give a crap enough to make their views known.

 

I've been saying this for years.

The best way to beat the extremists is to reach the people who are not in Al Queda and build relations and sympathy.

Iran was our ally in Afghanistan (big help) and everyone remembers their candlelight walks after 9/11. That was condemnation of terrorism.

But then, Bush threatens them and labels the regime the Axis of Evil, their moderate government gets thrown out for Ahmadinejad, and we know the rest of the story.

Intervention is not the cure. We actually had Iran on our side!

 

Sure. It is said that the views, as represented on the two videos of the links of my OP, are not Islam but are in fact a travesty of the faith. Given that these views seem to me to be the most vociferous - that they are, to borrow another's term - "hijacking" the faith - why is there not just an explosion of outcries in condemnation of same?