God or Nature ?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by KingofKings, Jul 23, 2007.

  1. #1
    Do you guys believe that this universe and the humanity creation and the world is made by Nature , or God .. or something we just can't reach and so the humanity don't keep on wonder they just invented a thing named God ?

    for me i believe in Allah.
     
    KingofKings, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  2. login

    login Notable Member

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    #2
    No one knows for sure. Or at least no one can prove it for sure.
     
    login, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  3. komirad

    komirad Well-Known Member

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    #3
    komirad, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  4. Kerosene

    Kerosene Alpha & Omega™ Staff

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    #4
    Science is my God.
    And the Elements are my angels :)
     
    Kerosene, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  5. sarathy

    sarathy Peon

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    #5
    Humans are part of nature.,
     
    sarathy, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  6. Dzuster

    Dzuster Banned

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    #6
    God created the nature..
     
    Dzuster, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  7. allout

    allout Prominent Member

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    #7
    Who knows the truth for sure but most things can be explained by science. As we learn more, science seems to explain more. It is human nature though to want to believe in something higher than us.
     
    allout, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  8. Jackuul

    Jackuul Well-Known Member

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    #8
    Humans are a disease.
     
    Jackuul, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  9. komirad

    komirad Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Nature needs no creation, it is natural.
    It is all a chain reaction from the big bang.
    The only problem is what started the big bang and whatever started that.

    and God? God is no better than big bang. Similar big bang, if God created everything, then who created God?

    God is not beyond logic. For if something is beyond logic, there can be illogical things. Things can then illogically exist, and the world can create itself illogically without a need for God is the first place.
     
    komirad, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  10. WebdevHowto

    WebdevHowto Peon

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    #10
    God, nature, science, for me they are all one in the same. I think my definition of God is different from the way most Religions would define God and certainly is not the modern Hollywood version.
     
    WebdevHowto, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  11. payabian

    payabian Banned

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    #11
    ITs only our almighty ALLAH the creator of this world.
     
    payabian, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  12. WebdevHowto

    WebdevHowto Peon

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    #12
    Not in my book :)
     
    WebdevHowto, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  13. payabian

    payabian Banned

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    #13
    Yeah dont mind brother but had you ever read your book carefully ? it has lot of mistakes which means its an human edited book while the QURAN which is the till today in its own original state no mistake .

    Ok let me know what you think WHO created this WORLD ?
     
    payabian, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  14. komirad

    komirad Well-Known Member

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    #14
    I don't think it is a "WHO".
     
    komirad, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  15. Cheap SEO Services

    Cheap SEO Services <------DoFollow Backlinks

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    #15
    I thought you were an Atheist? :confused:

    Col :)
     
    Cheap SEO Services, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  16. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #16
    Nature and the universe gives evidence of design, just think of a birds feather or the water cycle. Logic says that design requires a designer, this logic is expressed in the bible, for example at Hebrews 3:4 "For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything."
     
    grandad, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  17. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #17
    Rebecca, Jul 23, 2007 IP
  18. komirad

    komirad Well-Known Member

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    #18
    The current lifeform on our planet is "designed" by evolution.

    Here, I assume that DNA is already existant:

    The DNA has some random mutations every new conception. These random mutations can be good or bad, the bad ones will be shown by "deformation".
    I am talking about deformed babies because their DNA is screwed up. The good one will survive and some of these mutations will be passed down.

    As our body is built according to the genes(DNA), the genes can defined how big our brain grows, how strong we are physically. These mutations can therefore caused bigger brains or larger muscles. These attributes might help the lifeform to survive.

    Survival of the fittest does not mean survival of the most physically fit, but the survival of the life form that most fit into the environment. So the strongest does not necessary survive because they might not fit very well into the environment.

    So now you see, the genes that "fit" will therefore be passed down and the genes that don't will be eliminated.

    The birds' feathers and walk cycle is evolved. The first life forms that walked might be in fact very inefficient, but as generations passed, these random mutations occur and the genes with better walk cycle will generally be passed down.

    It is even possible to create a computer program that can simulate "genes": Random mutation / Elimination of the less fit. You will see that as the program runs, the surviving "genes" get better. This is how we got to this point.

    Now, we are going towards genetic engineering, human augmentation and robotics with strong artificial intelligence.

    And I think we will reach technological singularity, that is the point that we create an artificial intelligence that has the ability to improve itself causing an exponential increase in its own intelligence/ability and us using this, can improve our technology exponentially. Technology that would took us many many years to research might just be "researched" by this computer in a few seconds.

    What will happen then, I haven't thought about it yet but I will. I don't know if anyone reads my posts, and I doubt the religious will understand what I am saying here. My posts, I think, are very weird.
     
    komirad, Jul 24, 2007 IP
  19. grandad

    grandad Peon

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    #19
    All such arguments start with the need for a life form to be already in existence, so they do not disprove the Designer. The birds feather is a miracle of design and the water cycle doesn't involve any of the terms offered by the 'evolution' argument.
     
    grandad, Jul 24, 2007 IP
  20. komirad

    komirad Well-Known Member

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    #20
    For the water cycle:

    All things, even humans and animals, can be reduced to atomic/sub-atomic particles
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism#Ontological_reductionism

    Therefore the water cycle is only a chain reaction of these smaller substances, like all cycles/movements.

    We do not to start with a need of a life form. Life form is also caused by a chain reaction.

    You must understand that the universe is vast and there are infinite amounts of interactions between particles occuring. By probability, an interaction can even cause a complex object such as a human being to come into existance "randomly". Of course the chances of that happening is very very very small, but again the Universe is vast.

    The most basic lifeform, is very very simple. So chances are, they would be formed, by probability, around the Universe, hence, scientists say there could be aliens on other planets because life can exist out of no life. They would also have their own evolution and tree of life.

    Life is actually a complex group of molecules/atoms that interact. Life is only a term we give to this complex group and its reaction.

    (--unknown--) -> big bang
    (--unknown--) can be God
    (--unknown--) can be Flying Spaghetti Monster

    If you understand what I understand, you will see that the equation requires no God.
    Yes, we can still put God in the unknown part of the equation(that unknown is what caused the big bang, but that is not the abrahamic God anyway), but it is unneccessary. As you can really put other things in the unknown too.
    Anyway, this unknown will probably be known in this century or the next.
     
    komirad, Jul 24, 2007 IP