The biggest fraud on the Internet - DMOZ/ODP

Discussion in 'ODP / DMOZ' started by papajoe, Aug 6, 2005.

  1. aeiouy

    aeiouy Peon

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    #61
    One has to wonder though, why some editors don't even do a modicum of regular follow up and check up on their directories. Seems like it should be part of the responsibility. I know of a particular category where an editor just did an update, but when I went and looked at it recently, there were 7 different pages belonging to the same site in a list of about 25 sites.

    That is ridiculous. I was able to find that out in a few minutes time. If an editor can not even devote a few minutes a month to a category they edit, they should not be doing it.
     
    aeiouy, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  2. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #62
    minstrel, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  3. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #63
    this is all BS come with DMOZ for FREE!!!!!!
    this is obvious editors aint devoted to thier work the best they can do is to go in different forums and try to defend DMOZ all the way
    Ridiculous simply ridiculous..
     
    The Webmaster, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  4. toocoolforschool

    toocoolforschool Peon

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    #64
    Eh, you people bitch too much. I updated an old site and they did it within a week. I added two new sites and they added it within a week. Methinks all this bitching about DMOZ are by people looking to submit more junk directories or pointless "made for Adsense" sites. In that case, stop blaming them, and look at your own sites, and ask yourself, "If I was a DMOZ editor, would I accept me?"

    And hey, if you run an actual site with actual content that is actually usefully, and DMOZ still hasn't allowed you in within a reasonable amount a time (say, a month?), then okay, bitch away.

    Let the flaming begin. :)
     
    toocoolforschool, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  5. dvduval

    dvduval Notable Member

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    #65
    It just depends on the category. There are some categories with HUGE backlogs of sites that need to be checked. Why don't they have enough help? The real answer to that question would tell us SO much about everything that is wrong with DMOZ.

    As I said earlier, I created a free directory script to help people who wants to participate in human editing of directories do it themselves. There will come a time when DMOZ becomes antiquated. There is a huge void out there right now, and that is why small directories are so popular. I encourage everyone to find a niche and start their own directory. While there are other corrupt directories out there (like DMOZ), there are also some good ones. Competition is a good thing, and it will start to make people honest. It will take time, but it's great that we can talk about these things, and expose the problems.

    (Don't mind me...as I'm sure the best explanation for my post is I'm just a disgruntled ex-editor. There sure are a lot of people like me. Hmmmm...) ;)
     
    dvduval, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  6. Citizen

    Citizen Active Member

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    #66
    What is DMOZ?
     
    Citizen, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  7. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #67
    minstrel, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  8. Citizen

    Citizen Active Member

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    #68
    What did they do that was so bad?
     
    Citizen, Aug 31, 2005 IP
  9. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #69
    Long story. Do a search on this forum or on Google for DMOZ or ODP and prepare to spend a few hours reading.
     
    minstrel, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  10. macdesign

    macdesign Peon

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    #70
    They bugged a lot of evil webmasters, annoyed a lot of spammers. Refused to list the sites of many who post in these forums, and did such a great job that they are the basis of Google's Directory.

    See that http://www.dmoz.org/ is equivalent to http://www.google.com/dirhp - because Google copies from DMOZ about once a month.

    Don't believe everything you read in these forums. If they are so bad, why does Google use their content?

    Also be aware that many of the blogs about DMOZ (and the posts in here) are created by ex-editors who were kicked out of DMOZ for violating the rules for being an editor.

    Also be prepared to read hundreds more posts in this thread. Then you can get obsessed with getting a DMOZ listings and forget about anything else.

    Rule#1 - submit your site to DMOZ once
    Rule#2 - after submitting, forget about DMOZ - it's really not that important
    Rule#3 - there are no other rules
     
    macdesign, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  11. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #71
    Also be aware that at least as many of the complaints and criticisms about DMOZ are spot on and very accurate.

    Propoganda can be either negative (anti) or positive (pro) but either way it is just propaganda. Read it, investigate for yourself, and make up your own mind.

    But I would caution you, macdesign: You cannot dismiss criticism simply by branding it as coming from disgruntled editors or webmasters who have had submissions refused.

    See http://www.whois.sc/internet-statistics/dmoz-listings.html -- now explain away this to me as the angry ramblings of a rejected editor or disgruntled webmaster, please.
     
    minstrel, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  12. macdesign

    macdesign Peon

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    #72
    They are many valid complaints that can be made about DMOZ. You in fact have made some in previous posts.

    However, when you post
    See http://www.whois.sc/internet-statist...-listings.html -

    it's so inane, that it undermines the validy of points you could make. For example:

    98,511 GEOCITIES.COM
    34,621 TRIPOD.COM
    30,271 ANGELFIRE.COM.

    are shared hosting sites, they can have hundreds of thaousands of totally unrelated sites all of which can be listed. It's totally valid - this same complaint has been made so many times, it's boring. See http://www.dummies-guide-to-dmoz.org/wordpress/2005/06/19/listings-in-multiple-categories/

    If you want to see problems, I'm convinced you can find them in the list somewhere, but you have to go much further down the list and spend a lot of time proving the facts. ODP editors are aware of the list, and do use it to find invalid multiple listings.
     
    macdesign, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  13. elkiwi

    elkiwi Active Member

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    #73
    elkiwi, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  14. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #74
    That is so blatantly silly it's almost not worth responding to, madesign. Moreover, you know full well it's a silly response to my point. And THAT is exactly the sort of thing that enrages people about certain DMOZ editors - don't treat people as if they are idiots.

    Those are three samples from, what? 20 pages of listings? We all know that those are free shared hosting sites. Now tell me about the other several hundred listings and don't insult our intelligence.
     
    minstrel, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  15. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #75
    Here. I'll make it easy for you. This is a non-exhaustive semi-random selection of sites with numerous DMOZ listings each. Pick a few of these, macdesign, and explain to me why any of them need more than one listing:

    And by the way, these are NOT "much further down the list", although no doubt there are many more further down the list. These are from pages 1, 2, 3, 4 of that list.
     
    minstrel, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  16. dvduval

    dvduval Notable Member

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    #76
    First Example
    And I might add that on many of those porn sites, there is no way to know the age of the people being photographed. I visited THEXXXARCHIVE.COM and an installer popped up to install spyware...pretty nasty stuff. This is the kind of crap that makes our whole industry look bad, and you can bet your sweet potatoes this is an established editor putting this stuff on DMOZ.

    Second Example
    Interesting also...
    http://www.whois.sc/free-gay-sex-pictures-movies.com
    http://www.whois.sc/free-gay-porn-movies-pictures.com
    Same nameservers, multiple listings on DMOZ.
    If you look at the Alexa related sites on the whois records above, there is a ton more from the same person.

    This took me five minutes to find 2 examples.
    It really stinks that people are acting like we are a bunch of disgruntled editors. The fact of the matter is corruption is rampant. It's not just the porn.
     
    dvduval, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  17. Alucard

    Alucard Peon

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    #77
    You obviously have a definition of the word "fact" that I was previously unaware of.
     
    Alucard, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  18. The Webmaster

    The Webmaster IdeasOfOne

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    #78
    The Fact is Dmoz has Several listings of cheap porn sites full of spywares/viruses/trojan and they are with multiple listing. where on the other hand many very good quality sites are waiting to get listed in Dmoz.... come and deny it.
    And the fact is this way DMOZ is not contributing to make this internet world a better place, no way.
    Why we all can find these flaws within minutes which you editors cudnt or cud in some 100s of 1000s years.

    What r u editors for?? to come and defend DMOZ way of running things to different forums or to make BLOGS on corruption inside DMOZ and to say how corrupt you are and how you mismanage the things that too shamelessly??
     
    The Webmaster, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  19. dvduval

    dvduval Notable Member

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    #79
    Shall we continue?
    http://www.whois.sc/cybersexwebsites.com
    http://www.whois.sc/cybersexcities.com
    http://www.whois.sc/exoticsexsites.com
    Same IP address...identical homepage...give me a friggin break!
    The "fact" is there are many more examples like this. Please stop wasting your time defending DMOZ when the problems are so blatant.
    How do YOU feel about helping an organization that supports spamming the search engines with porn? This is NOT some isolated case. The list of DMOZ top listed domains has been published for a long time, and nothing is getting done, yet you contine to support porn spammers.

    Personally, I think it is safer for you to defend DMOZ because if you speak up, you will lose your job too. I did...
     
    dvduval, Sep 1, 2005 IP
  20. Alucard

    Alucard Peon

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    #80
    Now that I will agree with. I think that is something that editors should be dealing with. If you want to help the issue get resolved (rather than only complain about it), please report sites which deliver spyware, viruses or trojans, either in a thread on this board, or in the RZ, and they will be dealt with very quickly - that sort of stuff we take very seriously, but in practice, visiting 5 million sites to look for stuff like that is a herculean task. My guess is that most if not all of these sites didn't have that problem when they were listed.

    No, that is your OPINION. The ODP is, in my OPINION, doing a LOT of other things to make the internet a better place. Yes, there are issues. Yes, they have to be dealt with, but let's acknowledge the real issues, not make broad sweeping statements about "rampant corruption" as if they are fact.

    You assume that the flaws are unknown to editors. You assume that nothing is being done about it. Both assumptions are wrong. But doing something about the hijacks and mislisted sites is a constant job - while a load are gotten rid of, another bunch spring up. You want to see that as corruption, please go ahead, but it is OPINION, not fact.

    The issue about multiple listings for sites has been brought up several times on this forum. Answers have been given which people didn't acre for, so it gets brought up again and again and again.

    You want to have an opinion, fine, that is your right - just stop spouting stuff about opinions that you have being incontravertible facts....
     
    Alucard, Sep 2, 2005 IP