One thing that DMOZ could do - which would I think improve things quite a lot - would be: send an email out confirming submission. The email could be something like: your site has been submitted in to the queue where there are currently xxxx sites awiting validation. and something similar if the site is rejected. That alone would clear up a lot of the problems. One of the major problems (other than some editors attitudes) is that no one knows whether their site submission even made it into the queue.
Hi I would love to learn how things work. Can you please explain for me since DMOZ is "human" edited directory, how come there are so many 1 page web sites that are just a door way site for the same company or the same editor's business? If you don't know which sites I mean, you can look in my WPW postings for setp by step proof with search results from DMOZ and Google.
Sitetutor, This was part of my response to cbp, I think about Oct. 2004 when he asked for proof about DMOZ corruption, so every one can check the facts by themselves through search in DMOZ and Google. ".... Let's check the quality of your editors, go to DMOZ.org, search for word porn, 6264 results are shown. I clicked on the first 5 listing (1-5), all are small door way picture sites that are affiliate of maximumcash.com and get customers for that site. I got tired after 5, go through all the 6264 and I can bet at least 95% will be this type of sites. " "... Let's talk about facts. One of the editors for DMOZ uses the name: *****mistress 1- Search for this name on google, it shows the same user name is advertising sites on different web sites with with telephone number 1-900-321-**** 2- Search Google for the same telephone number. you will get a list of different url. mostly one page ad web sites. Some of the Domains are: Asian-sweet******.com Black-phone-***.com Sweetblack****.com .............. .............. 3- Search DMOZ.org for the same domains. You will see these domains are listed 4,7 and 3 times. Is really a one page ad web site, so important that has to be listed 7 times? Or has the editor spammed DMOZ to get listed 7 times? 4- The total links for these 3 sites is 14 on DMOZ, now multiply this number by 4000 that you mentioned as the number of sites that use DMOZ as their directory and you will get 56000 links for only the three mentioned web sites. Not bad for so called little "VOLUNTEER" work."
The question about getting automatic verification has been asked at least a thousand times, and the answer has always [and will continue to be] the same one. It will not happen. There are several reasons - the primary one being that any kind of automatic verification/rejection give information to the large numbers of industrial strength spam submitters. If the site got accepted you can see it's there - and if the search system ever worked that would help [in fact any technical resources would be better spent on that] to find it if it got accepted in a different category. If the sites got rejected, it's better that no-one knows - since that would encourage them to submit again. If a site that was listed got removed due to some technical problem - such as a DNS error it would be nice to have a notification procedure. In cases like this I [and some other editors also] will send an email to the webmaster.
Absolute nonsense! What information would it give? That the spam site had been rejected? And that is going to help spammers how? The reason it won't happen isn't because it isn't a damn good idea. It's because DMOZ editors really don't want non-DMOZ people to know anything about what DMOZ editors do and don't do. This is the kind of canned DMOZ response that really gets my dander up -- at least give us credit for not being complete morons! Geeze!
gworld, The Adults categories are whole other world from what I am used to (Sciences, Arts, and Business). But... I checked like you pointed out and everything looks fine to me. I searched, I clicked the first few that came up and it was as expected--an entry page of course, and then another banner page, and how many porn sites have everything on the first page? My thinking is zero; they load the pages with banners and have an "Enter" link at the bottom to go to the actual pictures. They don't make the site to give away free pics and not expect to make any money on the site. The ones I clicked through all stayed on the same domain as the entry page (no redirect), I had to navigate through all the banners to get to the free picture, but they were there. From what I can tell, if the category is Adult: Image Galleries: Hardcore: Free: F, the description says "This category is for free sites containing at least 20 hardcore images starting with the letter "F". If a site meets this description and the adult guidelines found here, then it has every right to be listed. And another fact is Adult is the most spammed category of the whole ODP. I stands to reason that a few spamming webmasters will apply (appearing to be on the up and up) and maybe be given permissions to edit. Then of course they will abuse the system just like they do everywhere else. They are monitored and dealt with when found out. But there are so many categories, so many listings, so many editors, and so few eyes from higher up IN THE ODP that they can't always catch editors abusing right that minute. And if the site listed is a redirect or what ever. Have you ever thought maybe an unscrupulous webmaster submitted a legit submission, and changed the page after it became listed? This could have nothing to do with an editor. There are so many sites listed that editors can't scan every one every day. So it may take a while to catch it and deal with it. If you find these, report the listing to bring it to an editor’s attention quicker. If you find abuse... report it with facts to make it a legit complaint and not just a sour webmaster complaining about the system. As far as who owns the sites...I don't know and I don't care. There are 66,375 sites listed in the Adult sections, I really doubt they are all editor's sites. I mean come on use some common sense, the adult world on the web is a majority of less than straight up webmasters, and of course the ODP is all volunteer (they do not advertise in newspapers to get editors, so 99% of editors are webmasters), and of course there is gonna be abuse ON BOTH sides of DMOZ, but there are checks and balances within and options for public to report abuse to Dmoz. The size of Dmoz just makes it take a little time to find the abusers. By The way, there is no rules against an editor listing a site of their own...except they have to divulge their affiliations with any sites and the site has to meet the ODP guidelines &Category descriptions AND they are supposed to give no special preference to their sites. If they break these rules they are found and dealt with, if they bend the rules slightly but continue to edit like they are supposed to, they are warned and the bending is taken care of by the higher ups. And By the way those dead sites still listed have already been deleted on the editor side and will be removed with the next public-side refresh. I know that no amount of me explaining will change your views. So if you don't like the way things are-- apply to edit, read the guidelines and whip some categories back into shape. Try to be part of the solution or else everything you complain about is a waste of time. Arguing on message boards will not put an end to "alleged abuse" Only an honest, active role in the ODP will help to push out the "abusers". Later, Rob
Minstrel, I agree some what. I personally don't see a problem with a automatic email "thanks we got your submission" In fact I think that would be a nice thing to implement to reduce spam if changed slightly. Like they would have to click a conformation email to have their submission forwarded to the unreviewed list. If they didn't click the varify link in the email then after 4 hours (or what ever time) then their submission would be deleted. I think this would slow the spam submissins down. and give the editors more time time to spend on quailty sites. **************** I think the email for being accepted would be ok. But no automatic email for a rejected listing, as pointed out it would encourage them submit again. {we can't send a personal email to rejections telling them whats wrong with thier site, because that would really take a LOT of time. And of course the arguments that would erupt from webmasters taking it as a personal insult on their webmastering skills.} An the same reason for not having an email to notify if a site is moved to another category. ************************* 404's are tagged by the system and placed in unreviewed. typically if they are still 404 a couple weeks later, they are deleted by the editor (some editors leave them in longer, I have accually checked on 404s that were in unreview for up to 1 year later and still 404, so I deleted them.) I generally hold them 2-4 weeks. But an email would be kind of pointless at times, what if the email used to submit the site was whatever@that site.com. So I am on the fence with this one. ***************** Later, Rob
rob777 Does DMOZ sends all the editors to a special course when they start? Your response is exactly the same as all editors, except longer. The short version of this will be: 1- It is not our fault that DMOZ is lousy both as a directory and the way it does business. It is spammers fault and every one who does not agree with us is a spammer. 2- We are "volunteers", so you can not protest that we are corrupt or do a lousy job, what do you expect, we are "volunteers" 3- If there is a corruption, don't make a fuss about, report it to us, we don't do anything about it but you will feel better and it won't be public. 4- be part of solution, blah,blah, blah. the only problem is when you try to be part of solution and apply to be an editor, we won't except you, it is against DMOZ policy to accept honest people. 5- Did we mention that we are "volunteers", if you have reached so far, go to step one and start again. can you tell me the why the "human" edited directory needs so many sites that are affiliate of the same web site maximumcash.com? Why not take away all the 1 page sites and just put a link to the source, if you have some kind of quality control. If you don't have any quality control, why not add all the affiliates automatically to a category? Your version may be longer and better than cbp's version but it is the same song and dance.
Just give up on CBP, that is like putting faith in Hitler, in the end he is a loser Just forget about him and DMOZ and focus on building good sites with great content and the Search Engines will index your sites without DMOZ. I have many # 1 SERP's in a lot of keywords and none of the sites are in DMOZ. Quit wasting time on DMOZ
anthony, I don't care about cbp or DMOZ, I just don't like corrupt bullies. The site I have, is just a hobby for me, I made it for my girl friend in the beginning, so she has something to play with while going to school. Just now the site is indexed by all major search engines and I have about 5000 unique/day without any advertising. If you look at the other thread in this section, I just bought 4 DMOZ listed domains that I don't even use to market my site and all of the those sites show content from different DMOZ discussions. The one with biggest number of links actually is showing this forum.
gworld, lol no there is no special course. But in the process of editing you are constantly reffering to the guidelines and rules. The reason why all editors responses are the same is because the guidleines are always the same and the answers we provide are based on the guidelines. Most of Dmoz is not lousy. The parts that are lousy are the parts that are spam targets/(Topics). Most editors that apply for these areas are from the same population that operates in these spammy topics of the internet. Thus some of the editors that do get approved take advantage of their powers (while they can) and abuse the system. Just like here at DP, some webmasters are stupid enough to sign up so they can post their 1 or 2 spam threads. But Dmoz is much larger and takes longer to "delete or ban a spam thread (site, editor, what ever) Exactly! Again I stand by the fact that people are so varied in human nature, that you will have idiots and abusers, but that is not everyone that edits for Dmoz. If you are not an idiot, and you are not an abuser... then join up and help out, that will be one less spot for an idiot/abuser to step into. I did not say or imply don't make a fus about. I meant that by ranting in forums will not change anything. I only makes the accuser look like a disguntled webmaster that is mad because he didn't get listed. If you report abuse it is investigated (I believe it is also looked into by the staff (the only 2 or 3 people that are paid employees of ODP)). There are so many Metas that are also involved with abuse investigations that I don't think it is possible for all of them to be corrupt and just dismiss an abuse report. Trust me I have reported abuse and watched things from the inside and there were a few different editors that stepped in and dealt with the problem. Abuse is not taken lightly, because they know the history of editors signing up abusing and leaving. So they try to watch closely and when something is reported they do investigate. If they did not dismiss an editor that you reported, maybe they found that they was no evidence of abuse, or maybe they warned the editor and changed his screw ups, or maybe they only found that the editor didn't completely understand how to edit properly-so they warn and help the editor with mentoring and other assistance. That is not true. I had to apply 3 times before I got in. They reject applications because of the samples that you submit. If you didn't use the correct title, bad spelling, hype, puncuation, didn't follow the guidelines, etc. they will reject an application. And are you saying something about me because I'm an editor? I have been there for 2 yrs and I do not have 1 single site listed anywhere in the whole directory. I have 1 site waiting for review since 2003, and 1 site waiting since 2 months ago. The site waiting since 2003 is in an unreviewed list (with 1100 other sites) of a category that I'M the named editor of (since Jan 2004). Now you tell me that "it is against DMOZ policy to accept honest people." Yeah ok. The editors at ODP are the same people that you associate with on the webmaster forums. So unless you think all webmasters are corrupt idiots, don't think ALL editors are corrupt idiots. They are all from the same community. Later, Rob
Again, this is unmitigated nonsense. An email to say that the site has been accepted would be nice, yes. But if it's been accepted in the category to which it was submitted, presumably the submitter can find it there himself or herself. It is precisely when a site has (1) been moved to another category or (2) been rejected outright that the email should be mandatory. That should be considered simple courtesy, although one certainly does not get the impression from the Resourceless Zone that any kind of courtesy is even understood at DMOZ. And it would save a lot of repeated inquiries at RZ from submitters wondering if the site has been rejected or is merely languishing like thousands of others for months or years on end in the queue. How will either encourage spam? It does not have to identify the specific editor who made the decision (it can be sent anonymously from a generic DMOZ mailbox). It can provide a list of generic reasons for rejection. It can even indicate that the decision cannot be appealed (if only to spare the webmaster the futility of trying to appeal). As for encouraging the webmaster to submit again, the email could even suggest that to do so is futile. Or, to be truly honest, that submitting to a different category or at a different time might well result in the site being accepted if a different editor reviews it. Nor is anyone asking for a personal email - that's just ridiculous. Pick one of three canned emails: (1) your site has been accepted and is listed in {category}, (2) your site has been moved to {category} for review, or (3) your site has been rejected: please see {url or list below} for reasons. All of this is academic, of course. I am fully aware that there is no way in hell that DMOZ will ever institute such a system, partly because it DOES make sense and partly because someone somewhere said "no" and that is the way DMOZ operates -- the Lord DMOZ the Infallible has spoken and we will not allow reason or information to confuse us now. Just please do not insult us with these pathetic excuses and pseudo logic.
According to this posting in the Resource Zone, editors are not obligated to review sites on a first come - first serve basis. How then are sites selected for review? If anyone could shed some light on this process, I would be most grateful. Here is a link to the posting below
Don't take it out on each other, guys! Take it to AOL, they can make a difference. jLerner, that is what our blog is for http://dmozpetition.blogspot.com to end the communication barrier and start shining some light.
jlerner, From a post I made in another thread. Over here Basically their comment was right. We can sort the list anyway mentioned in the qoute above. Plus, we see the whole list of sites waiting for that category and we can jump to the middle of the list and start there. There is no set rule that says we have to edit the first ones submitted. But usually we try to do it that way, to get the oldest submissions taken care of first. There may be a bunch of old submissions waiting at the top of the list, but if the title, description, and url (deeplink) are looking like spam, we might skip them and move down to a legit looking submission and start there. We seriously get submissions like this, Title Example.com your number one source for water filteres - water, bottled water, spring water, etc. Description We have been selling our 100% pure alpine spring water for the last 15 years. We are the largest mobile water supplier in all of India. Blah blah blah Url w w . example . com /hot products/ clear water/ about us. htm With crap like that and we skip over it and move on to a site that the submitter accually took the time to read the directions, and more than likely is in the right category. We hit the easier edits first than go back to the crap when the legit submissions are caught up. Now not all submission are that bad, but if it isn't to guidelines like instructed when filling out the submissin form...it looks like it might be either a spam, or an edit that will take a little longer to straighten out to conform to guidelines. Make you submission close to perfect as you can, and you might have a better chance of getting reviewed sooner, if the peticular editor is one who hits the easier ones first. I do this often, but I also try to get the older ones caught up too. Later, Rob