I don't worship prophets. And I know of no religion today that kills Jews based upon the word of their prophet, except islam. There is no moral equivalence. I've spent more time than most muslims studying their religion. Which is why they often ask me to prove claims. And when I do, they disappear, or use one of the standard issue excuses of: a) you can't understand because it has to be read in Arabic. Which is BS, as the quran is available in all languages and english versions are distributed by mosques. b) It was taken out of context. What context does 'kill christians and jews' make it acceptable? c) You should study the quran before speaking about it. This one is a favorite, I see it every other day. This is post 9/11. The number of dhimmis that would simply accept that "islam is about peace and tolerance" is dwindling faster than any time in history. The question then becomes, why are muslims so ashamed of their teachings? Why do they intentionally lie about what their quran and hadith teaches? The quran tells muslims not to befriend Christians and Jews. Then be proud of it and say so. What reason is there to lie about it? Shame? The quran tells muslims to kill Christians and Jews. Why be ashamed of it? Be proud and admit, yes it does say that, and then use the excuse of "not all {insert something here}" when no is claiming "all" in the first place (another excuse I see all the time). The hadiths claim on judgement day that every muslim will be given a Jew to kill so that muslims will go to heaven. Why be ashamed of it? It is what it is. Why not setup a Southern Baptist Church in Mecca? For that matter, why not a Synogogue? Islam is supposed to be "peaceful and tolerant," right? That is, as long as us infidels pay the jizya (infidel tax) and submit to being second class citizens. Why be ashamed of it? If you or anyone else are ashamed of these things, then leave islam. What's the point of believing in a religion if you always have to lie about the evils of it because of shame?
There are a number of infidels here who are very knowledgeable about islam. Your excuse might be valid pre-9/11, but in post 9/11 times, many decided to do just that...study islam. You need a new strategy. I can assure you that one won't work. Not here.
Did you forget 9/11 (twin towers), forget that, if today any bomb goes off, further investigations will reveal it was an Islamic terrorist attack.
"A HARDLINE cleric linked to Somalia's powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to "hunt down" and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam. Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin urged Muslims to find the pontiff and punish him for insulting the Prophet Mohammed and Allah in a speech that he said was as offensive as author Salman Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses. "We urge you Muslims wherever you are to hunt down the Pope for his barbaric statements as you have pursued Salman Rushdie, the enemy of Allah who offended our religion," he said in Friday evening prayers. "Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim," Malin, a prominent cleric in the Somali capital, told worshippers at a mosque in southern Mogadishu." What a fucking idiot!!! A blood-thirsty cleric following a blood-thirsty false messenger of a false god (small 'g' for allah). IN Christ, the Truth, the Light, the Way, who never killed ANYONE!!! But came only to save. (Mohammed was a murderer).
Actually Christ is literally the word of God and by the word of God many were killed in the Flood, Sadom and Gamorah, Judgement Day, etc. The issue isn't whether or not a prophet killed people. The issue is whether or not God really ordered them to do it. It has yet to be demonstrated that Mr M was really a prophet of God. I have yet to see it proven that Mr M even prophesied at all much less that every single prophecy he ever made came to pass.
Ohh Com'on man, these excuses werent valid even before 9/11 because they (Islamic terrorists) were in India, Indonasia, Russia, Afganistan and even US along with many other countries long before 9/11 either killing or trying to kill people..
True, they were never valid. However, at least here in the US, it was definitely easier for them to use those types of excuses prior to 9/11 and get away with it. After 9/11, people (at least here) started wising up and doing research. That was the message I was trying to convey.
Okie DUMB ASS, that was the dumbest thing i have heard this year. My name causes national security alerts and trust me, i have heard lot of bullshit but u surpassed all of them with your brains. Are you quoting this bible thumping website? http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm Do you ever turn on to some other channel then FOX news? Go and read this you ediot: http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/a100501b.html If still you have problems, go search for "fastest growing religion" on google and why do you think only the websites that talk about islam show up? Most of them obviously talking about how its a myth.
You are right. The 1.5 billion people who revere the best of creation, do it because it has been demonstrated to them that he was indeed a messanger of God. Everything he spoke and done was through direct command from God, just like Jesus and Moses, peace and blessings of God be upon both of them. All debate should be centered around this, instead of waisting time in trivial matters. Nine out ten threads here do not talk about this but rather quote verses from the Qur'an which talk about the severe punishments awaiting those who reject God's word (something normal in every religious text)... or the military campaigns the Messenger of God (peace and blessings of God be upon him) was instructed by God to make against those who stood as a barrier from Islam spreading. You are right, if it is demonstrated that the Qur'an is indeed God's word then these issues are very meaningless. So then why are nine out of ten threads always talking about them then? Go here to see lengthy discussions about the Qu'ran being the word of God. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=6820419&postcount=1 Scroll dow to the links headed: The Qur'an: its miracles and preservation Feel free to register and post in any of the linked to threads about things you disagree with. You wont find any of these excuses at the forum I linked to above. Please create some of your threads there or reply in some of the lengthy ones already there, and see if there is any question left unaswered.
you can see from this little thread in a webmaster forum why the world is full of problems... people condemning each other by simply standing with their 'camp' (i won't use 'faith')... i'm a christian myself... but i think islam at its core preaches good as with most religions. i know lots of muslims that love peace and are good citizens. however, it's the fucking muslim leaders (like the somalian in post #24) and terrorists that give muslims a bad name.
Again I really suggest people take part in this thread at the forum pasted above which is arguably the most informative thread on that entire board... heck the mods of the bodybuilding forum made it a sticky.. Also visit this link for a good explanation of what Jihad in Allah's way actually means: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=799&CATE=3
He doesn't really resemble much of the past 'prophets'. *shrug* No magical-like powers, no need to ask for forgiveness of sins,..... The one thing that always interests me is that if Jesus is a prophet to muslims, then why don't I hear any anger from them when Jesus is offended...almost all the time? Is Muhammed of a higher caliber than Jesus?...Why the discrepancy in behaviour? A cartoon of Muhammed and places are on fire, but a Jesus crucifix is put in a pool of piss (sponsored by the US government), and there's no outroar from those whom claim to recognize him as a prophet.....odd... Again, I don't care if anyone practice any faith, as long at they're peaceful; but personal as a somewhat antagonstic person, I find the moral theme of the Gospel to be the only thing I agree with. It's not that I know the inner depth of Islam, but I know the history of conflicts which surround it. Christianity didn't have a really good history, but the story of Jesus is resoundly peaceful, and that's all that really counts for those whom truely worship or respect Jesus ie that they follow his words. Christianity is defined by Christ, and his actions, just like Islam is defined by the general actions of Muhammed. Atleast that's how I see it.
He actually resembles the previous prophets extremely well, and yes he had many miracles and made many prophesies which all came true. Dr. Zakir and others have had public debates on these issues, and if interested I'll paste some links to audio and video files.. but of course if you were under the impression that the lives of these prophets don't even resemble each other then you should seriously spend a few hours reading the thread I pasted the link to above..... I mean there are several people at that board waiting to reply to any possible question you have. The biggest issue GTech says he has is that when he provides his proof, people disappear. That will not happen if you do what was suggested above. That is a western run forum, and the mods made the "Ask about Islam" thread a sticky in the P&R forum.. He got banned because he made some comments about Vietnam veterans. After all it is a Western run forum... Is atriibuting his arguments to kitman the best you have?
I don't have questions, I provide answers It was a question. Do you think he's mastered the art of kitman? Yes or no? His arguments are based on kitman. Surely you wouldn't deny that? Is it the best I have? Nope, I offered this post above, and except for a few lines, you just skipped right over it. Was your response the best you had? How is the terrorist plot recently uncovered in Canada doing?
No, I don't think he has ever even heard of that term, let alone actively, and intentionally employed those techniques. Show some examples where he has been appologetic, or has tried to avoid legitimate questions, better yet.. go make some affirmitive comments in his thread, and when he or someone else asks questions, you can provide the answers you're so good at I believe Islam is a religion of peace in times of peace, and a religion of war in times of war. There have been conquests and liberation of lands carried out by the Islamic state in the past in order to implement Islamic rule, and I have no problem with that. In normal circumstances Islam teaches to treat non-believers with dignity and respect, especially the people of the book. The Messenger of God (may the peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: "He who abuses a dhimmi [non-Muslim citizen] then I will be his rival and dispute him on the Day of Judgment." Freindship emanating from the heart should be reserved for people of the same faith however. Since belief and religious devotion is not something trivialised or insignificant in our lives. This is a command from God and we accept it based on that alone believing it is full of wisdom. I'm not following those events since they do not concern me.
Get me if I'm wrong, but the prophet's 'miracles' are determined to be true based on the Sahih al-Bukhari? Here's a general statement of western scholar (on such): Christopher Melchert: Actually, the Sahih of Bukhari seems not to have been widely published until well into the tenth century, for virtually all known transmissions were through a single man, Muhammad ibn Yusuf ibn Matar al-Firabri (d. 320/932). [6] Somehow, no one else of the many illustrious traditionists who related hadith of Bukhari (al-Mizzi lists over eighty) recognized the value of his collection of sound hadith and transmitted it. Its organization, in particular its chapter headings, seem not to have stabilized until the mid-tenth century. [7] It first attracted commentaries in the later tenth century. Non-Muslim historians in the Western tradition are much less likely to trust the hadith, or the process by which they were sifted for accuracy. -------------------------------------------------------- General question....Did Muhammed claim the earth was flat?
i do avoid to talk or post in such subjects but the only thing i know and i go by is " i dont give a crap who you are black white....muslim .......BUT I LOVE YOU because you are human like me you speak you think...." ones all have this as a basic then peace will shine TvDomain
Which, of course, to the politically correct is intolerable. Yet many practitioners of Islam routinely vilify Judaism and, to a lesser extent, Christianity. Talk about a hypocritical double standard!
So it would be fair to say you know him quite well, to make that suggestion? Kitman is not about being apologetic nor avoiding questions. Thanks, but I'm not interested in the forum. I've been asked to post at many forums, but I'm right here. If someone is interested in what I have to say, they can address me here In normal circumstances, islam teaches to treat non-muslims as second class citizens as long as they submit to islam's authority and pay the jizya. Can we agree on that? I submit there is no time of peace in islam, as long as world has not submitted to islam. Can we agree the goal of islam is for all the world to submit to islam through conversion? I can certainly cite cases of such, even from supposedly "prominent" muslim leaders right here in North America. The non-messenger of God also said: This is a personal opinion. You are entitled to it, though I disagree with it. I've had many friends from many different religions. I personally don't care what religion someone follows as long as it doesn't threaten my family, my country, my way of life or myself. This is why you will not see me take issue with Hindus, Sihks, Catholics, Mormans, Jews and just about any other religion I can think of. Now if they start blowing "shit" up like muslims do, I'll be first in line to take issue with them. The scripture in question in regards to taking friends: How does one rationalize that islam is about peace and tolerance when it preaches intollerance towards others? This goes back to the questions I presented above that were passed over. Why isn't there a Synagogue or Baptist Church in Mecca? Wouldn't that go a long way in trying to promote the unpromotable message that islam is about tolerance? I presume you will not address the other points I made. Fair enough, they are tough questions that most do not have answers for. I reiterate though, that if these teachings are so shameful as to cause muslims to lie about their existence, they why would someone want to be muslim? I normally follow them, but hasn't been much mention of them lately. I'm always concerned with the many unfolding terrorists plots and crimes committed against humanity in the name of islam.