In another thread, I was discussing the implementation of Islamic state with some Muslims which was closed by a mod but I am still unclear about the subject, so I would like to know more. This is not about attacking Islam, it is about learning the Muslims interpretation of Islamic State and to know if there is unified understanding of the concept among them. I start the discussion by following questions: 1) Is there an Islamic State at present time (like Saudi, Iran,...) or not? 2) In the ideal Islamic state is Islam laws such as about drinking, sex outside marriage only for Muslims or for everyone? 3) What rights non Muslims (other religions) and Atheists have?
This is certainly a complex question, which I guess has been already answered to you by Imad 1) no there is no true Islamic State in the present time, Iran and Saudia don't count, Just because you implement a bunch of Islamic punishments does not mean that you have a Islamic State, Islam is a complete way of life, IMO the west a$$ licking SArabian monarchs are a disgrace 2) if you are Muslims the Islamic laws will apply to you, if you are not than you can drink, I already showed you the link at wiki that how most of the Muslims States have special permits for non-Muslims for Alcohol.. you can read http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/viewall/ for detailed view of right of non-Muslims in an Islamic State
Blessings and mercy of Almighty Allah be on you. Dear brother. I am so glad to see that you are interested to gain some knowledge about Islam. and its my pleasure if i will be able to clarify your questions. First of all, never look at any Muslim as an example. If you want to learn about Islam just look at our beloved Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and read Holy Qurán, the last and final revolution from your and my God Allah. First of all i will tell you about Islamic State. Islamic State: If you believe on God then you must admire that He is the creator of us and this planet. If he is the owner of us and this planet then he has the full authority to implement his own rules and regulations, because he is the creator, He has made the best rules and regulation. Being a Human we are his representative. When he sent his first Prophet Adam(may Allah be Please with him) he told him all his rules and regulations and command him to obey them. But with the passage of time people stray from his religion, therefor he sent his messengers to guide his men to the right path. On some Messengers he revealed his revolution, and that was applicable only for that period and for that peoples. Finally he sent his last and final Messenger Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) not for specific time,region or peoples, he sent him for whole mankind till the end. He revealed his last and final revolution Holy Qurán on Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) 1400 years ago. Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) build first Islamic State in Madinah, the complete and pure Islamic State. Later on his companions were the president of Islamic State. The period of almost 50 years Islam grow very well after that as the passage of time the declination of Islam begin. But there was still the pure Islamic State few hundreds year before. First Question: Unfortunately At this time there is not a single Pure Islamic State. There are so many Muslim Countries but they are not completely implement Islamic rules. Implementation of Islamic state means, The state or Country which implement all Rules and Regulations given by the creator Almighty Allah. Second Question: The pure ideal Islamic State is not just for Muslims, as Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) and Qur'an is not sent for Muslims but the whole humankind. Islamic rules are the best for us, even a non Muslim will consider it as the best State. Third Question: In Islamic State Non Muslims have their full rights. They could pray their own way with full freedom. and it is the duty of Islamic State to take care of them. But they will not allowed to do any wrong thing such drinking, sex, etc. Because these things are also prohebited in all religious books including Bible. It is anothe talk that majority of christians are not following Bible. Dear brother islam is the best practicing religion and only acceptable in front of Almighty Allah. Its the duty of all Muslims to convey the message of Allah to all humankind. Islam is the only fastest growing religion over the world because it is the true religion. And Almighty Allah invites all human to think about there creation and the creation of this palnet, so that he shows his signs in everything but we still do not looking at it. Dear Brother: If you have any other question or misconception about Islam, I will be pleased to clarify that. May Allah Guide us to the right path..
Dear brother. you are 100% wrong. as i mentioned on above post that such things are prohibited in all religions. As some muslims are not following all Islamic rules, people of other religions are also not practicing their religious books. Why are you giving examples of some states as you know that there is not a single Islamic State at this time. If you want any example then i am giving you the example of the State of Madina under the rule of Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him). Dear brother i am saying you again not look at any Muslim or any Muslim Country. Just look at Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) and his State. Now a days many Muslim Scholars have stray, Therefore our beloved Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) said: "Hold firmly the rope of Allah, that is his Holy Qurán and my Sunnah" May Allah Guide us to straight Path.
This is what I am talking, here we have only 2 Muslims and you can not agree on what is an Islamic State, so how should we in West know what it is? I will be interested to hear from more Muslims and may be even more discussion among Muslims of opposing views since I have a feeling that a lot of people talking about Islamic state but they don´t have the same thing in their mind.
Dear Brother: i have told you not to look at me or any Muslim. Just look at the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) and last and final revolution Qurán. I am giving you the right concept of Islam and I could give you reference from Holy Qurán and Bible. If you consult with Muslims, you will find different opinions but the best opinion it that which is according to Qurán. If you are so curious about Islam Just Read the Holy Qurán . and i promise that you will find answers of your every question. Once again not look at any Muslim except one who is following Islam properly. But being a non Muslim you don't know who is practicing islam properly, so please read Holy Qurán. Muhammad(peace be upon him) said: "Muslims will divided into 73 groups, all of them will go to hell except one, which is following Qurán and my Path" So please Just read the Holy Qurán. If you require, i will give you answers of your question with the reference of Quran. May Allah Guide us to Straight Path
I don't mean to say that it OK to drink and have premarital sex, however it is not Muslims who are going to judge what bible allows or does not allow, it is them the Christians and their religious leaders who are going to tell the Muslims state that what their religion allows/not allows now that is my opinion .. to which you might not agree to ..and as most of the Islamic states do allow non-Muslims the alcohol licenses than there should be a reason behind that , now this does not mean that the Islamic states of today are any sort of example that we need to follow but in good faith we can assume that they have done their research on the topic and inferred from Sharia that non-Muslims should be allowed drinking @gworld as Sultan said, it is better that you read the Quran and Sunnah yourself to get your answers, Google is also your friend most of the places do provide references from Quran and Sunnh so you will be able to judge for yourself the link that I provide earlier is a good place to start and yes, the State if Medina under Holy Prophet SAW is the ideal Islamic state and is the role model for the Muslims to follow
Dear brother. I am a Student of Islam and comparative religion. It is not the rule the no one can judge else the religion follower. anyone can judge Islamic rules reading by Holy Qurán. Alcohol is prohibited in Bible. you may read this Alcohol and Christianity similarly you can see so many ladies exposing their body while in the bible it is written that, you should have to shave of the lady who does not cover her head. You can see Nuns and their modesty. 1 Cor 11:5,6 says, “But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.†Similarly these wrong acts are also prohibited in all religious book. So please dear brother never stray anyone with your knowledge, unless you are 100% assure. Please don't mind i am your brother and love you. May Allah guide us to straight path.
Interesting. To my best understanding, the term "Islamic State" refers to a state whose law system is based on the ideology, spirit, and principles of Islam. Your criticism new to SArabia is two fold: A) they are not democratic. B) the lick the a$$ of the west. Lets forget about A) for a moment. and start with the easier one: In (B) from the spirit of your text it is clear that according to your definition: "a true Islamic state must be anti-western". Applying the priciple from above, (the term "Islamic State" refers to a state whose law system is based on the ideology, spirit, and principles of Islam), but a simple logical consideration one necessarily concludes that according to new, the following statement is valid: "the spirit, principles, and ideology of Islam indicates that Muslims must be anti western". I did not make any arguments so far but merely applied a trivial logical consideration. We arrive at: * According to new, A muslim living in the west, the spirit of Islam indicates that A "true muslim" must be anti western. But more interestingly: on which parts of the Quran/Sunah you rely upon when you say that "a true Islamic state must be anti-western"? *wink* *wink*
.... Ok, so we know why you don't believe that Christians should be allowed to drink alcohol in an Islamic state, but what about Atheists? Atheists don't have/want a "holy book" and we are unbound by religion; we may have premarital sex, drink alcohol, wear revealing clothing, etc. (I do think the incredibly revealing clothing is in poor taste, but you get my point.) Now, in an Islamic state you personally believe that Muslims and Christians should not be allowed to drink alcohol; do my questions to you are this; 1) Should the punishment for Muslims and Christians be the same for drinking, sex, etc? Should that punishment be whipping/stoning? (I know stoning is for adulterers, I'm not saying for drinking.) 2) Should your ideal Islamic state for Atheists to live by these same rules? Oh and new, I (genuinely) find it endearing that you believe Atheists shouldn't have to live by Muslim rules; although I don't agree with needing a permit to drink in comparison to other posts you seem relatively sane. *pats*
having a hard time readingt simple text? try again don't try to mix your understanding of an 'Islamic State' with what I said the Islamic state is not for the Arabs alone, there can be a Islamic state in West so how can a state be anti-itself ? being an a$$ licker is a different thing and to be anti-something is different certainly no one wants to be an a$$ licker ? are you proud to be one ?
Dear Sister, never mind if i am wrong. Let me explain you with an example: If there is a religion in which robbery and rape is allowed, and someone rob all your wealth and rape you and said that in our religion it is allowed, will you be glade and say, OK I don't mind thank you. but no you will want your wealth back and put him behind the bars, even some non muslims said that they will kill him. So think and tell me is it required to implement same rules on all or not. and who will define that rules? The best one to define rules and regulations is none but our creator. So In the last and final revolution Holy Qurán our god has mentioned all rules. and i challenge eveyone that not a single islamic rule is against humanity. With Allah's will, I could prove anyone who has a wisdom, that Our God is none but Allah and Holy Qurán is the last and final revolution from him and Muhammad(peace be upon him) is his last Messenger. . If you have a wisdom, then i welcome you to admire existence of Almighty Allah. May Allah guide you to straight path.
Thank you gworld for your question, and thanks to wisdomtool for his wise decision in banning religions bashing threads, you can ask any question to Muslims, no matter what was it, and you can disagree with them as you like, but it does not need rocket science to know that so many of the threads been started by people like truth777, browntwn, and others, are nothing except picking some crimes that took place in some Muslim countries, that has nothing to do with Islam teachings, but more against them, and blame it to Islam, then refuse any discussion, or debate and insist on using this as an entrance to attack Muslims, and do insults to their beliefs and their religious symbols, and the prophet pbuh, who was a teacher, not only for Muslims, but also for non-Muslims, whether they admitted it or not, and all that without they even know anything about Islam except what they been fed from the sources which you can easily see and know in their words and actions, and all also with knowing that similar crimes happen in their own countries in a much higher level, thanks also to you brothers and sisters, who posted, or will post, in this thread, or others, for the info, and the links, I'd like to add more on it, and confirm some: 1) Is there an Islamic State at present time (like Saudi, Iran,...) or not? Yes and no, deepening on your understanding for the word Islamic state, if you mean a state that mostly inhabited by Muslims, then yes, there are many, if you mean a state that in which Islamic rules are the source of constitution there, then yes there are many, but if you mean a state that 100% follows Islamic rules, and laws, then the answer would be no, there is none, not even Saudi or Iran, in the contrary, Saudi and Iran both have some serious violations to Islamic rules, including some basic ones. 2) In the ideal Islamic state is Islam laws such as about drinking, sex outside marriage only for Muslims or for everyone? These you mentioned are only for Muslims, non-Muslims can follow their own justice system and laws/rules only if they paid Jizya, you are not asking about Jizya here, but I want to talk about it in a quick, because I know some see it as something negative, some say, Muslims forced non-Muslims to pay Jizya, in return of protection and safeguard, and use this against Muslims in mockery to say something like, Muslims forced them to pay to be safe from Muslims themselves because if they did not pay, they will be fought/killed. nothing can be more far from truth than the above paragraph, because, non-Muslims were paying Jizya, in return of not being obligated to serve in military, when their fellow Muslim citizens did not have this option, to pay money in stead of not serving in military, some use the Jizya thing to say falsely that many non-Muslims converted to Islam at these times, because they couldn't afford to pay Jizya, and if they did not pay it, they will be killed, which is not true also, because, only those who are in military service age, and who are able to serve in military, and who can afford to pay it, will pay it only, women, children, elder, ill, poor, are not asked to pay Jizya, or serve in military, and are not being fought or denied their rights for that, besides, being Muslim, does not mean you will be exempted from paying, Muslims pay Zakah, while non-Muslims are not asked to pay it. that was just in a quick about Jizya, so as long as non-Muslims paid Jizya, they can practice their beliefs, freely, provided that they do not take from other people rights, that also means, if a non-Muslim woman, wanted to walk in public while not wearing al-hijab, it means she can, as long as it is something modest and not bikini for example, the link New provided includes some info about this topic, even though it is in 13 articles, but it is much summarized, since the topic is not small, or simple as many may think, but it can answer most of the questions that concern non-Muslims, which are mostly about sex, alcohol, and eating pork: from that link there is an example from Islamic history, that holds some answers: and this was confirmed and seen by non-Muslims in many occasions: 3) What rights non Muslims (other religions) and Atheists have? it can be very lengthy answer, you can read the link New provided, it will answer this question and give you real examples on how these rights been implemented, it is worth to mention here, that I think Islam is the only religion, that had rights for the people who do not embrace it, and it made it a great sin, and guilt, for Muslims to deny them these rights, as it been documented, several times, as in the example below in Mohammad pbuh letter: and as it is clear in this example: other religions, used denying rights, and even torture, as a method to attract more followers, Islam does not believe in this, these rights are not set by Muslims to give them or take them at anytime, or abuse them for materialistic gains, at some other point, or when it was not possible to use force, other religions used humanitarian aid, like food, medicine, shelters, education..etc as a method also to attract more followers, this is much better than using force and torture, but still, Islam does not believe in this either, as much as it believes in truth, it is why you do not see rights suddenly appear, or disappear in Islam, for non-Muslims, and it's why you do not see Muslims bearing gifts, to non-Muslims, it is also why you did not hear much about Muslims aid to Haiti, to a degree that some here assumed there was none, despite there was much, and it's why you see some provide aid fast, but not faster than providing journalists to cover the event.
New, perhaps you should provide us your definition of a$$licker, specifically as applied to Saudi Arabia so we can understand what specific actions qualify them as licking the "a$$ of the west". It is, after all, part of your definition of why they are not an Islamic state, so it would be good to know what the specific disqualifying actions in this category might be.
Funny, they all have an avatar promoting a site that provides answers for muslims to give, as though thinking for themselves is a crime, and they still can't agree. lol look at them arguing amongst themselves. Don't you have a pre-scripted answer to give on your "how to get out of being a sentient being" website? ya robots.
Your are contradicting yourself, how can they (we) have different opinions, answers or discuss if they (we) were robots?
Interesting. This leads me to a few questions. What do you think of the states who you say claim to follow Islamic law but do so in blatant violation, as you claim. Are they blasphemers who are a disgrace to Islam? Do you think it would be possible to form a "real" Islamic state if, of the many Islamic states that exist today, there is not even one, according to you that follows the laws 100%? I also want to thank you for the information on Jizya. I find it hard to believe I've arrived at this point in my life without knowing of it's existence. Perhaps you can provide me some of your insight/opinion on the subject. It seems to be my understanding that anyone paying Jizyah can do whatever they like, regardless of Sharia law. Does that mean the rich amongst your culture can party it up with pork, whine, and orgies(porking women) while the poor who cannot afford Jizyah must remain devout? Does this, in your opinion, mean the poor have less personal freedom in Islamic culture than the rich do? If Jizyah is a tax, is it lower, higher, on top of, or in replacement to the taxes Muslims pay in the same land. I just want to let you know I love the idea of Jizya, and I wish western culture would implement something like it. If I could pay a little bit more in taxes to drive at excessive speed, drink and drive, run fraudulent business practices, intimidate and physically threaten those in competing business, and create pornography involving farm animals, I would be ALL OVER IT. @New: Were you going to answer the questions in this post?