PR Update

Discussion in 'Google' started by Freebies, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #61
    LOL @ driving with poutine!

    And yes... we should all take a cue from Homer Simpson -- "Donuts... is there anything they can't do?" :D
     
    minstrel, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  2. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #62
    Curious where one obtains this information? :confused:
     
    Homer, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  3. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #63
    My Uncle works at the coffee shop where Larry and Sergey go every morning and he called me last night with the overheard conversation report :cool:
     
    anthonycea, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  4. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #64

    So true...why do you think I chose Homer as my Avatar. When we stand side by side the body lines are strikingly similar....ahhh dohnuts.

    For the record I do not attempt driving and eating poutine anymore...not a good idea.


    A couple of questions about PR...

    What is the difference between internal and external PR?
    Is there different values awarded?
    How can we see internal?
    Which one carries more weight?
    Why is there internal and external?
     
    Homer, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  5. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #65
    If you go through all of a member named "Michael" posts you will find an answer Homer.
     
    anthonycea, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  6. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #66
    What is the difference between internal and external PR?
    These are colloquial terms (rather than specifically defined or official ones) referring to whatever PR Google actually calculates (internal) vs. the PR Google chooses to display to the publis (external -- Toolbar PR or Directorty PR)

    Is there different values awarded?
    "True" PR is assumed to be a continuous value, whereas displayed PR is discrete, i.e., displayed in steps of 0 to 10 in the case of the toolbar.

    How can we see internal?
    We can't directly.

    Which one carries more weight?
    Definitely internal, since that is the value Google uses.

    Why is there internal and external?
    Google needs "internal" for it's ranking algorithm. External is for interested observers only.
     
    minstrel, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  7. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #67
    He didn't "obtain" it. Actual PR is always updating due to its nature. The three weeks is a stab at the next visible or toolbar update. If it follows the pattern it will actually be April 1st.

    <Added - Minstrel typed faster >
     
    yfs1, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  8. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #68
    Thanks Minstrel, yfs1, Anthony. This provides some clarification. However although my knowledge base has been broadened with this info...for some reason I feel no further ahead :confused:

    Now that it has been explained if you boil it down to the brass tacks...what I'm hearing is Google keeps good secrets. Minstrel has directly answered each question with an answer...thanks. But the answers lead me to ask a ton of more questions, but I won't.

    I am really just trying to get a feel for what roll PR plays in the grand scheme of things? At one point PR was everything. Today I can't see much of a relationship between PR and serps. :confused:
     
    Homer, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  9. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #69
    Three words can lead to the light

    Bob

    Compar

    Mutch

    :p :eek: :p
     
    anthonycea, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  10. yfs1

    yfs1 User Title Not Found

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    #70
    PR is just an indicator of "popularity". The basics that make up that popularity (links) also contribute to your position in the SERPs. So its not that PR = Good Serps , but more time than none if you got the high quality links to get a high PR, you probably will rank well for the keywords you targeted in the anchor text.

    Remember that you can have a PR10 but if you didn't target a particular phrase with your anchor text, you won't rank for it.

    The SERPs algo uses a ton of factors including those that make up PR.

    The PR algo however only seems to take linking into consideration (The original one did anyway)

    PS. Anthony, this isn't General Chat, why don't you just help a newbie instead of posting cryptic messages (maybe take your own advice, re: the adsense threads)
     
    yfs1, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  11. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #71
    OK...forgive me for wanting to rebut this but I thought PR was a measurement of 'importance' not 'popularity'. I am not splitting hairs here but feel that the translation of the two words are much different. Google says pr is a measure of 'importance' (internal and external i will assume are the same)

    I understand the concept of anchor text and relevant linking but find that it has more of a noticable effect in serps an not PR. PR, in principle, uses the casting a vote theory. I know there is much more ie. the source of the vote, how many other obls are on the page, PR of the said voting page, etc. But I am still left wondering how this effects your bottom line...placement in serps? :confused:
     
    Homer, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  12. anthonycea

    anthonycea Banned

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    #72
    The so-called internal PR is one of many factors in the SERP calculation and ranking, maybe someone will link to the Google White Paper that Larry and Sergey did in college for you Homer.
     
    anthonycea, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  13. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #73
    "Importance" was defined initially by "popularity", Homer -- the original concept was that the number of pages that linked to a given page was a "democratic" vote for the "importance" of that page to other internet users and webmasters. Of course, this was before link farms and link buying...
     
    minstrel, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  14. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #74
    Already read it and got what I could out of it, thanks anyways.

    This much I understand until you get the the last part
    I think that is what has thrown the webmaster community for a loop. Has the nature of PR changed due to some of the unscrupulous tactics used by SEO guys? I know Google likes to keep the SEO sector in the dark for as long as possible. I have to think that Google's counteractive algo changes designed to combat these manipulation techniques was neccessay, but hope they have not compromised the integrity of what we think PR represents...popularity or importance.

    If they have then I will agree with many webmasters that believe has become entertainment.
     
    Homer, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  15. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #75
    Bearing in mind that PR was never more than one of several factors used to determine Google ranking, the algorithm changes, very generally speaking, have been attempts to devalue certain types of linking practices anhd/or to circumvent various techniques devised by webmasters and SEO experts to manipulate current algorithms.
     
    minstrel, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  16. Michael

    Michael Raider

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    #76
    Actually there is no mention of popularity in the original paper and importance is used there to mean citation importance of which PageRank is an objective measure. The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine.

    - Michael
     
    Michael, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  17. minstrel

    minstrel Illustrious Member

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    #77
    Hmmm... where did I say it was defined in "the original paper", Michael?

    In common usage, these are imprecise colloquial terms, like "internal PR", "true PR", etc. But as the terms are commonly used, "popularity" = "importance" = "backlinks" = "Page Rank"
     
    minstrel, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  18. Homer

    Homer Spirit Walker

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    #78
    You must be the famous 'Michael' that Anthony speaks of. Thanks for shedding some light. I will read the link you have sent ASAP, it looks like the kind of read that will require time and beer. :)

    What I have observed over the last year is that bls seem to be less influential on PR value. Is it possible that there is more to the picture then meets the eye, now?

    I have always been a proponent of developing a very strong and relevant bl campaign. In my case I compare myself (Currently ranked 2-3 in my keyword) to competition. By every scorecard, bl's and on page, I am light years ahead of all competition yet I can't seem to capture the most sought after position...#1.


    This is what I find about this. I was not sure what exactly you meant by this. So we are talking about backlinks and quality thereof.

    This statement may be getting us closer to the crux of the issue?

    Your thoughts??
     
    Homer, Mar 24, 2005 IP
  19. crazyhorse

    crazyhorse Peon

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    #79
    Not sure if you are such a fan of reading, i know i aint , but have a look at this as well.. How LSI work Not sure whether is relevant. ;)
     
    crazyhorse, Mar 24, 2005 IP
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  20. Michael

    Michael Raider

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    #80
    You said "the original concept". What original concept were you talking about then...?


    You may prefer Hagstrøm's PageRank Explained with Bright Colours it is a faster read and leaves more time for beer :)

    - Michael
     
    Michael, Mar 24, 2005 IP