you know what I meant when I said their problem is not with Saudi regime, but with nature, they are going against nature, not against Saudi regime who is going with nature. and this still does not answer the question, so yes, I think you need to say more, if you think they are natural, show your proof. I hope by now, you should know that throwing words of accusation without a proof is nothing, empty words, how am I abusing statistics? are you saying they are not real, or that they are not a result of the crime and punishment system there, but a result of something else? if so, what is it? so many want to go to USA to work and live, and maybe for other reasons, but what can this proof? you need to be more specific, and give reasoning, because by this you posted you seem like someone who believe that smoking is good, because every time he enters a place, he sees the smoking area full but the non-smoking area is almost empty.
Imad, you are too easy to debate with..... There you go: List of animals showing homosexual behaviour How dare the golden fish disobey our great prophet Muhhamed?????????????????????? And you still didn't explain how come millions of muslims (9 million in 10 years) immigrate to the USA, but no americans immigrate to the muslim countries. Are they not aware of your magnificent statistics? SORRY. CORRECTION, you did refer to it: The reason is PROGRESS! (not just tall buildings) FREEDOM! LIBERTY! TECHNOLOGY! and - SAFETY! knowing that they will be judged by an intellectual judge and according to a modern civil law if they commit a crime, and not an ignorant who knows nothing about the world except for a book written by 1,600 years ago. The life is better in the USA than in Saudi arabia. and the Quran of saudi arabia is one of the reasons, although you prefer to turn a blind eye to that. People immigrate to a heaven, not emmigrate from it. besides, there are less robberies in singapore than in saudi arabia. They are not following the quran , correct me if i'm wrong. There are also less robberies in Israel, almost none actually. Here you don't get stoned in the main square, you just spend couple of years in jail. Your "justification" of the primite laws with the abuse of numbers do not hold when comparing the immigration/emmigration waves to and from what you call heaven: saudi arabia. (LOL I can't believe u're serious).
here you mix between existing in nature, and intended by nature, yes what you call as "homosexuality" do exist in animals, but the use of sexual organs for homosexuality, is not intended by nature, you are like saying here, man should be animal, I know some would say human beings are a form of animal, but should we do something because animals do it? I am sure you heard that cats, eat their babies, and I can give you a list of other animals, insects ..etc who do the same sometimes, right? I want to use your logic here: Police Say Woman Killed Baby, Ate Brain HOW DARE THE POLICE CHARGE AND ARREST HER!!!!!!!!!!! please Chaos, do something to help her, she is innocent, send them a list of the animals and insects that do kill and eat their babies!!
Are you sure that your name is Imad and not Muhammed? basically you say that you are the one who knows what is "intended by nature"? you will say what is natural and what is not natural for humans? I guess you base it on your very deep knowledge of the human and physical nature? We don't do it because animals do it. we do it, because this is what we are. this is how we are by nature, across all religions and all races and through all of history - gay people existed. Even one or two english kings. This is nature my friend, and please excuse nature for not behaving as you and your books would like it to behave. hold your breath and think Imad. You are starting to get to the bottom of my (not so complicated) preaching to you: women who kill babies should be arrested and prosecuted. They harmed another human being. Homosexuals should be allowed to live their life freely and equally: they never harm other people. On the contrary! homosexuals are better behaving, better educated, and more sensitive persons in average than the rest of the population. good one imad, made me laugh again. Sorry that I don't have a mosque-made logic...... I hope that you are starting to understand how modern humanity thinks.
then why you gave me that animals example? it may not harm two individuals, but it is very harmful to human survival as species, this might be funny for some atheists, cos they are eager to defend disgusting and harmful practices falsely under the name of freedom: I recommend you to watch the OP's video again, and assume all Muslims in europe been kicked out to somewhere else, will Europe population problems end then? it says there, in order for a culture to maintain itself for more than 25 years, required fertility rate is 2.11 children per family, I m not sure how accurate is this, but if it was not accurate, then the whole topic does not make sense, I will assume it is accurate and see the result: 1.9 FR never reversed, 1.3 is impossible to reverse, they also shows how with such FR's the there will be a huge drop in population within 20 years from 2006 to 2026 in France it is 1.8 England 1.6 Greece 1.3 Germany 1.3 Italy 1.2 Spain 1.1 in whole EU FR is 1.38 which means, even if they kicked all Muslims out from there, they will still have a problem, and continuous population drop generation after generation, and huge part of the blame is not on Muslims for strictly hold on their religion teachings as a general, but for Atheism and whatever dirt that comes with it falsely under the name of freedom, like homosexuality, if Muslims purpose was to take over Europe, and if all of them been kicked out, Muslims will still later say a big thank you to Atheists, for making it easier. so stop throwing blame on Muslims on every problem you face there, and get mature enough to blame yourself for it, the argument about this topic can be endless, I said what I wanted to say, so I will stop here unless if there was something new and really interesting, thanks for the discussion Chaos and all, and best of luck.
I was about to answer that earlier with "Just watch the news and very soon one of the bad news will have in it the words Islamic militants, Islam, Hamas, Taleban ...." Here it is, I didn't need to look for it: Hamas fight with Islamic radicals kills 13 in Gaza GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — Islamic radicals from an al-Qaida-inspired group battled Hamas security in the Gaza Strip Friday in shootouts that killed at least 13 people. The fighting began when Hamas forces surrounded a mosque in the southern Gaza town of Rafah where about 100 members of Jund Ansar Allah, or the Soldiers of the Companions of God, were holed up, including some armed with suicide belts and rifles, according to residents of the area. The confrontation was triggered when the leader of the group defied Gaza's Hamas rulers by declaring in a Friday prayer sermon that the territory was an Islamic emirate. Jund Ansar Allah and a number of other small, shadowy radical groups seek to enforce an even stricter version of Islamic law in Gaza and have criticized Hamas for not doing so. They are also upset that the Hamas regime has honored a cease-fire with Israel for the past seven months. Hamas has said it seeks to set an example and does not impose its views on others. It also says its violent struggle is against Israel, not the Western world. The more radical groups' calls for global Jihad undermines Hamas' attempt to appear more moderate to Western eyes. The hard-line groups are perhaps the most serious opposition Hamas has faced since it seized control of Gaza and ousted its rivals in the Fatah movement in a five-day, bloody civil war in June 2007. The leader of Jund Ansar Allah, Abdel-Latif Moussa, warned Hamas forces against trying to enter the mosque compound. "If Hamas does that, it will be their end," he said. Shortly afterward, a gunbattle broke out between the militants inside the mosque and Hamas forces surrounding it. Hamas officers then raided the mosque. The group's leader had already fled the mosque, and Hamas forces surrounded his house later and waged another gunbattle with his men. A large explosion was heard from Moussa's home late Friday, and the house partially collapsed, witnesses and security officials reported. It was unclear whether the explosion was set off by Hamas forces or militants with explosives holed up inside. Hamas has closed off the area and ambulances have been unable to access the scene of the fighting. At least 13 people were killed in both gunbattles, including a senior Hamas official and an 11-year-old girl, according to Gaza health official Moaiya Hassanain. Over 150 people were wounded, including 29 in serious condition, many of whom were civilians caught in the crossfire, Hassanain said. Hamas government spokesman Taher Nunu said the Hamas leadership was engaging in an operation against "outlaws" and called on Moussa's followers to surrender to the authorities. Jund Ansar Allah first came to public attention in June after it claimed responsibility for a failed attempt to attack Israel from Gaza on horseback. The group claims inspiration from al-Qaida, but no ties have been confirmed. In July, three Muslim extremists from the group holed themselves up in a building in southern Gaza, surrendering to Hamas police only after a lengthy standoff. It is unclear how many members Jund Ansar Allah or other similar extremist groups have in Gaza. source http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1458042 May be Islam is the religion that gives a bad name to all religions. Do you know that most terrorist groups around the world are Islamic?
LOL ! imad, every post of yours is getting more and more pathetic. Homosexuality was always out there - human species was never endangered. The real danger to humanity is actually exactly the opposite case: over-population: exhausting of earth resources, global warming, pollution, wars and starvation due to over-population. Read this! see what happened in the last 100 years You are a typical religious person: first you draw the conclusions, then you look very very hard for explanations. And even the explanations are very poor and stupid - you will fight to protect them at any case. what you should say is this: "I think that homosexuality is wrong because I am a religious person: this is what I have been taught. This is what all people in my close social circle think. and most importantly: this is the will of god". with this I can not argue. Any other explanation you can think of based on science philosophy biology or logic, is something that I can cancel in 2 seconds, as I did. Next time you go to the mosque to pray, think that according to natural reality, 5% to 8% of the men behind you are staring at your ass and like what they see And there's nothing you can do to change it. But you really topped yourself this time: quoting bullshit from a racist anti-islamic movie to justify the suffering of homosexuals! !!! Imad you are the best. The theories with the "children per woman" shown in the anti-islamic movie is B U L L S H I T. Don't worry, if you kick all muslims out of europe, europe will never turn human-less Simple explanation through example for Imad: In the middle ages there were worldwide less than 2 children per woman who reach the age of 18. It did not make humanity disappear. It made humanity have normal numbers, not dangerous numbers like now. For the real explanation, you need to learn a thing called "differential equations" (not taught at the mosque), and then I can give you the equations to work out for yourself. Imad! You are the best! because you wanted "proof" that homosexuality is natural. I'm glad that you did not insist that is it not "intended by nature". It is against Islam to have more than 1 god, right? so you can't have "allah" and "nature" gods at the same time. both have "intentions" or "will" on one side, and a reality on the other side that doesn't always match. What happens in nature, this is exactly what nature "wants" imad. 8 children who reach adulthood per woman? this is "not intended by nature". Because it is man made. It is us, humans, through (western) science and medicine, who make this possible. At the same time, the west is teaching how to balance it by birth control. Islam does not - and will be responsible for the disaster that it will lead the world into. You are going against nature.
religion does not try to promote what is natural. but it tries to control and regulate what comes natural to mankind. just like any other law. man is a savage species. the only one that kills its own kind without a need. the only one that kills other animals for sport. the only one that damages the environment.
really Chaos? from reading "intended by nature", you think there is a God called Nature? no, this is not right, and also, everytime you hear someone saying it "happened by accident", it does NOT mean there is a God called Accident. did you notice that you still did not answer the question of is homosexuality is inborn? the best you got is a list of animals and insects, and said this is the proof that it is natural, when it was just a proof that it does exist in nature, not natural, or intended by nature, by intended by nature is the natural intention for these organs, again, I will use your logic for a moment, just to give you another laugh, cos it made you laugh in the earlier post when you saw yourself from outside: there are many dogs that had sex with a shoe, and this is the proof that dog-shoe relation is natural, there should be dog-shoe clubs, and the Government must allow dog-shoe marriages the question was if animals do it, should we do it, was enough from you when you said NO, but you are still stressing this point in a pathetic way, because it is almost all you have, (homosexuality should be allowed cos I have seen 2 male donkeys having sex) is not a good reason Chaos, and also is not natural, even if it existed in nature, when you put two male donkey's in unnatural conditions, outside their group, they will act unnaturally, same for dogs, many have dogs and they often see the dog try having sex with a shoe, or even to human beings, now, should we allow human-dog marriages? yeah it exist in nature that a dog and human being have a sex, sometimes even the dog start it, does that mean it became natural? should it be allowed? or maybe allow dog-human marriages? maybe later we will vote to allow cannibalism or not? since it won't harm anybody, in the contrary it will help solving the hunger problem in some areas of the world. see the point? really not so hard to understand, if you think simply as you claim you are, when you are following the same thing you accused me of, now let me review your reasons why homosexuality should be allowed, some are hilarious: 1- "Homosexuality was always out there" so was killing, lying, cheating, stealing, being "always out there" does not make it OK. 2- "Homosexuality is OK because I am not a religious person" again, should killing, lying, cheating, stealing... be OK cos you are not a religious person?? 3- "Homosexuality is OK because animals do it" ... we already discussed this, but the new one is 4 4- "Homosexuality is natural because animals do it" oh really? then if a dog had sex with a shoe, it means we should allow them to marry? 5- "homosexuality is good because it will limit the population" it is like saying, lets promote and encourage suicide to help solving the population problem (if there was any) do i have to go on?...
I don't know what you mean by "without a need". You refer to serial killers/random murderers or something more..profound and not negligible? Some apes are cannibals: when a new female is accepted to the group, the dominant male will eat all of her new-born apes until enough time has passed and he is certain that he is the father. Male beasts will fight to death for the right to mate. is this "for a need?" Fish who lay eggs and swim away may return to their own eggs and think that its food, and eat it (this is why in judaism they are not considered as "meat", but as such a low life-form equivalent to plants, and may be eaten with diary products). Get a cat and watch him bragging about killing mice in your backyard just for sports. mine does. hmmm... I would say: the only one that damages the environment and is unwilling to try and stop it. http://purpleslinky.com/offbeat/cow-farts-and-global-warming/
since i do not want to get into a useless argument i will say that mankind is one of the most savage of spices on earth not the most
So what, 99% of the Muslims in Western countries are secular anyways. They don't really think of Mohammed as their idol or follow the Koran by the sword. I hope they completely ignores them and make their perception of the world. Law abiding Muslims that promote humanity and community regardless of religion, race or heritage is what we need.
evil has religious overtones. as such it is another excuse created by mankind to explain his savagery. man's nature is independent of his religion. so i do not like to use the word evil.
sacrifice, in the short term, the freedom of a small group for the freedom of the general public in the not so far future.
oooooh. one of those things that i dislike about your way of thinking. it is everyone's interest to protect the freedom of small groups.